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Old 02-07-2012, 03:42 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,936 posts, read 22,206,840 times
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There may be less wage disparity, but there is a huge gap between the "haves" and "have nots" in Vermont. Go around many towns here, and you see the street after street of run down apartment houses, the dumpy mobile homes, etc., where the people making those $10 an hour wages live, and then the mcmansions, condos, etc., lived in for a few months a year by someone from out of state or the handful of wealthy people. The actual residents of many towns have been priced out of their towns by outside money that stays only part of the year.

I've been told in Rutland for example that most of the real estate is in the hands of a small number of people, and from what I've seen of some records, that's not far off. Someone from Rutland might know the slumlords I'm talking about, but I won't name them here.

The millionaires around Vermont are mostly officially residents of other states. Few millionaires are going to make vermont their state of residence given the tax situation. They'll come here seasonally and go back to the low tax states.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,056,956 times
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Just to clear things up and no hard feelings towards anyone. The census data is just over $50,000 per "household" not per person the census data shows per capita income at $27,000. So in fact the just over minimum wage figure for 50% of Vermonters is accurate. I encourage people to read the one report in particular "between a Rock and a Hard Place." Don't quote me on the exact title but if you Google that title along with VHFA, you will find it. Or simply go to the VHFA site. There is so much more addressed in the report including the increasing homeless issue.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:09 PM
 
166 posts, read 385,694 times
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Here is some info from a report released last mointh on the VHFA's website about Chittenden County.
Even though Chittneden County has the highest paying jobs these facts show that the majority of the residents are poor. I suggest reading the whole report as its quite a eye opener.

The vast majority of the county’s working residents pay more than 45%
of their income for the combined cost of housing and transportation.

The median income among Chittenden County households is approximately $60,000. About 14%
(over 8,000 households) of the county’s households earn less than $20,000 annually and 41%
(about 24,000 households) earn $50,000 or less.

Renters have lower incomes on average than homeowners. A full 30% of Chittenden County’s
renters earn less than $20,000, compared to just 6% of households who own their home. Three quarters of the county’s renter households earn under $50,000 compared to one-quarter of


The median income of households in Chittenden County is $60,000. The most prevalent
occupations in the county pay substantially less than this. The five most common jobs in the county
are retail salesperson, cashier, personal and home care aide, teaching assistant and registered
nurse. None of these occupation types have median wages high enough to afford to buy the
median priced home for sale in the county.


Few of the county’s most prevalent jobs pay enough to afford prevailing rents

Publications | Vermont Housing Finance Agency (VHFA) | Low interest rate mortgages, affordable home
loans


Read: Chittenden County Housing Needs Assessment: An ECOS Analysis Report

The report 68Vette mentioned can be found in the link provided above.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:20 PM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,709,266 times
Reputation: 2253
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
There may be less wage disparity, but there is a huge gap between the "haves" and "have nots" in Vermont. Go around many towns here, and you see the street after street of run down apartment houses, the dumpy mobile homes, etc., where the people making those $10 an hour wages live, and then the mcmansions, condos, etc., lived in for a few months a year by someone from out of state or the handful of wealthy people. The actual residents of many towns have been priced out of their towns by outside money that stays only part of the year.

I've been told in Rutland for example that most of the real estate is in the hands of a small number of people, and from what I've seen of some records, that's not far off. Someone from Rutland might know the slumlords I'm talking about, but I won't name them here.

The millionaires around Vermont are mostly officially residents of other states. Few millionaires are going to make vermont their state of residence given the tax situation. They'll come here seasonally and go back to the low tax states.
More than likely a lot of the people living in those run-down houses aren't making $10/hr. If they are working at all they are probably making less than $8/hr, but there is a very good chance they are simply on welfare and their rent paid by the state or municipality. There are not a lot of places for them to work, in part thanks to the out-of-state transplants who move in and nix any proposal to bring in business that would put those people to work. Spoils the Currier and Ives image of Vermont they came here to find doncha know.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:45 PM
 
444 posts, read 683,840 times
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I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I found a good site for comparing the situations in different states:
Vermont QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau.

Here are some examples:

........Median Household Income.......Persons Below Poverty Level

Vermont.............$51,841....................... .........11.1%

Maine.................$46,933..................... ..........12.6%

New York............$55,603........................... ....14.2%

New Hampshire....$63,277.............................. ...7.8%

North Carolina......$45,570............................. ..15.5%

Mississippi...........$37,881..................... ..........21.2%

Illinois................$55,735................... .............12.6%

California............$60,883..................... ...........13.7%

U.S.A.................$51,914..................... ...........13.8%


Vermont doesn't look bad compared to most states.

Last edited by pauldorell; 02-07-2012 at 06:09 PM..
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:27 PM
 
166 posts, read 385,694 times
Reputation: 112
Did you read my post above? Its a report that was just released last month for Chittenden County where the highest incomes in VT are. 65% percent of the county makes 50k or less with 14% earning less than 20k a year.

Bottom line is the per capita income is $27,000. Half the population makes below $12/hr. What is so hard to understand about that? Vermont is one of the most expensive states in the U.S. with insulting wages. All the facts are there in the VHFA reports etc.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:38 PM
 
Location: IN
20,786 posts, read 35,828,356 times
Reputation: 13215
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldorell View Post
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I found a good site for comparing the situations in different states:
Vermont QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau.

Here are some examples:

........Median Household Income.......Persons Below Poverty Level

Vermont.............$51,841....................... .........11.1%

Maine.................$46,933..................... ..........12.6%

New York............$55,603........................... ....14.2%

New Hampshire....$63,277.............................. ...7.8%

North Carolina......$45,570............................. ..15.5%

Mississippi...........$37,881..................... ..........21.2%

Illinois................$55,735................... .............12.6%

California............$60,883..................... ...........13.7%

U.S.A.................$51,914..................... ...........13.8%


Vermont doesn't look bad compared to most states.
In North Carolina, the cost of living is about 40% less than Vermont. $45K median household income stretches much much further than $50K or a $60K median in Vermont.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:12 PM
 
444 posts, read 683,840 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK1 View Post
Did you read my post above? Its a report that was just released last month for Chittenden County where the highest incomes in VT are. 65% percent of the county makes 50k or less with 14% earning less than 20k a year.

Bottom line is the per capita income is $27,000. Half the population makes below $12/hr. What is so hard to understand about that? Vermont is one of the most expensive states in the U.S. with insulting wages. All the facts are there in the VHFA reports etc.
I don't get your point. $27,334 is per capita income for the entire U.S. There are plenty of places that are worse off than Chittenden County. For example, Portland, OR has a lower median household income and a higher cost of living. I'm not saying things are great in Chittenden County, it's just that the grass always looks greener elsewhere, and often it isn't.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:30 PM
 
444 posts, read 683,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
In North Carolina, the cost of living is about 40% less than Vermont. $45K median household income stretches much much further than $50K or a $60K median in Vermont.
Yes, the cost of living is generally lower in the South, but it wouldn't be 40% less unless you moved from a McMansion in a popular area to a hut in the woods. And it depends where you move from and to. If you moved from St. Johnsbury, VT to Raleigh, NC, your cost of living would go up without much of an income increase.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Vermont
1,006 posts, read 1,411,235 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldorell View Post
Yes, the cost of living is generally lower in the South, but it wouldn't be 40% less unless you moved from a McMansion in a popular area to a hut in the woods. And it depends where you move from and to. If you moved from St. Johnsbury, VT to Raleigh, NC, your cost of living would go up without much of an income increase.
Actually. we have friends in NC and 40% is probably close. They live just outside Raleigh and he's a raleigh Durham police officer.The house they bought was about 40% less than an equivalent one here and their property taxes about 1/5 of what they'd pay here. Utilities and food are cheaper too. And sorry, no hut in the woods. IT's a newer 4 bedroom colonial in a beautiful neighborhood.
I love Vermont too Paul, but let's not try and make it something it's not. It's a tourist state with lot's of low paying service jobs. We have a lot of out of state homeowners with vacation homes (2 in my neighborhood alone). The mega homes around here are generally owned by wealthy out of staters. I know someone who caretakes for some of them and they make a lot of money. They pay their caretaker more than many vermonters make in a year.
I'd love to retire here and go south in the winter. I love Vermont summers. I can afford too but many cannot. My property taxes are $7500 a year plus heating oil plus Vermonts higher income taxes. An equivalent home in NC (I get regular emails from a real estate co in NC) is about 3/5 the price of mine. Property taxes are about $2000 on that house. So every year I'm in retirement I save about $7000 cash plus have money in the bank from selling my house and paying cash for the new one.
Lower income vermonters can stay in Vermont and just get by or move and live much easier. The sad part is many would choose to retire here cold and all but just can't financially. Something needs to change before we just become a playground for the rich. In many areas of Vermont it feels like we're already there.
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