[chaz longue]

Fascinating post. From my vantage point in Chittenden County, the VT you describe is as removed from my day to day reality as is the wall-to-wall hippie world you mention. Most of my world is neither phish nor fowl. And it's vastly more fair than foul ;-)

I'd say that different parts of VT are very different one from the other, and that VT is not an easy state to grasp without spending some time here...

So where do you hang your hat, Hookie?

[MRVphotog]

Originally Posted by Hookie

The 8 months of awful weather, in my relatively humble opinion would be Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr... Ok, so that's only 6, but let's give April extra weight because of how she toys with our spring-hopeful emotions. And November for being cloudy and raw 80% of the time.

Anyway, Arel, I am glad I can add to your already exhaustive research. Seriously, you should have your own spin-off website at this point. As was pointed out, those hunters are from the NEK, but that's sort of beside the point. Hunting is a deeply ingrained part of the culture in Vermont (hence the number of children posing with carcasses in those pictures). There are those who would have you believe that "those redneck huntin' folk" are a silent minority offset by the vast numbers of hippies, rich retirees, second home owners, gays, and those of generally bohemian ilk (not to mention your average person). It would certainly be comforting to believe this, but that's just another illusion about Vermont. Go to a local convenience store and take a look at the list of people's killin's . How many pounds, how many points- you'll often find it listed right there by the beef jerky on the counter.

Although I'm largely indifferent to all but my own petty self-interests, I guess I lean left politically. That said, I've noticed that the people on the farthest left (which Vermont obviously has, particularly in Brat/Burlington) and the farthest right make the biggest noise. A lot of Vermonters lean right, but in general Vermonters don't make a lot of noise (another cultural thing). So, Vermont has this reputation of being an ultra liberal utopian wonderland because it has been a safe haven for those on the far far left who, like I said, tend to make a lot of noise (not to mention alienate 90% of the population and do a disservice to otherwise worthy causes with their over-the-top antics).

I digress. I guess you could move to Brattleboro or Burlington and not see a lot of blaze orange, but that doesn't mean that hunting isn't part of their reality (and their parents' and their grandparents' etc). Regardless of where you move you obviously don't want to be an imperialist imposing a foreign set of values on anyone else (or, especially, to silently judge). I think Vermont has had enough of that. Sure that Toby Keith song blaring out of a run down pickup truck might violate your concept of all that is good in life; the drunken kids on atv's ripping up that quaint farmers field in mud season might enrage you; and the sound of a cute little deer's head exploding from buckshot might just be too horrifying to bear. But, like manufactured housing blighting a pastoral landscape on a grey, overcast day, that is the reality of Vermont. It seems like if people want the cultural trappings they are accustomed to, they should stay put. It is a nice place to visit though, for sure.

Alternately, you could look at it like this: Vermont is a Pisces (4/4/1791). Oh but not just any Pisces! I mean sun, moon, mars, venus all in Pisces (and north node conjunct neptune). WTF does that mean, you ask? Illusion, delusion, confusion! A ready-made screen for all of our idyllic projections. which is why so many transplants become DISillusioned with the state (and why it attracts so many Piscean types- artists, spiritual seekers, musicians, druggies.... oh yeah, check out the heroin epidemic.) But, like a Pisces there is some intangible, magical quality that is so intriguing that you just can't say no. A cruel mistress she is.

I think you write better than John Irving and Chris Bojohalian(sic), hmmmmm. You forgot the punchline tho. Like most states who have folks from diferent places and diferent lifestyles, we mostly get along very well.

Remember Vermont wasn't one of the 13 original colonies and it was founded and built by transplants. Hell, local farmers and recent transplants might argue some at the town meeting but afterwards they are sharing an apple pie with a hunk of sharp cheddar and cup of coffee.

One comment does bother me..."the drunken kids on atv's ripping up that quaint farmers field in mud season might enrage yo". With all the kids getting hurt or killed, like the two kids(I think they were around 12) that got killed the other day driving too fast, anyone with any degree of common sense, transplant or 12th generation, thinks that is a real stupid thing to do. It enrages everyone.

[vter]

The OP has given some very good advice. Life in Vermont is not how it looks in Vermont Life Magazine or the tourist brochures. Be prepared to see deer (dead) hanging out of the back of a pick up or strapped to the roof of a small car in November. As mentioned before, it's a way of life up here.
Be prepared to hear country music on the radio dial. Be prepared to see lots of muddy pick-ups.
If you want fancy restaurants, nice shops, etc., you'll find yourself in a tourist related town or in a town such as Montpelier, Bratt, or Burlington which has seen an influx of out-of-staters over the past few decades.
The OP was right on about politics too.
I grew up in the Kingdom-just spent a week up there. Want to see Vermont? Go to Canaan, Norton, Island Pond. THATS the Vermont I know and love.
PS - Chaz...you know what they say about Burlington? People love it because it's so close to Vermont.
In all seriousness, I love Burlington. It's just different (in a good way), thats all.

[Integritysbest]

The vast majority of people...from everywhere, are great people...
There are a few unsavory characters in every place I have ever visited!
Vermont is a GREAT place to relax...raise your children...and WORK HARD!
You just have to want for it bad enough & try hard enough!
Moving to Vermont is a hard but VERY SATISFYING DECISION!

[chaz longue]

...plus, since (in Burlington) it's an open question every year whether we'll have a white Christmas, do November and December really count on the "awful weather" inventory, Hookie?

David Beckett

[Eeyore]

Some people seem to delight in denuding the place of it's finer points, and to them I say bah. This is not what I'm trying to do. It's still a magical place, large pockets of Alabama hidden therein notwithstanding.

This cracked me up. Why? My mom is from Alabama and my Dad grew up in Vermont.

I feel like Im from both places even tho' I grew up in Birmingham. I have family in Vermont and we've tried to visit as much as we can. Ive been all times of the year. But now I only visit in the winter. the so-called "bad" months. lol Ive been in the fall and it was beautiful...but not any more than where I live here in Alabama.

Im just curious what it means to have "large pockets of Alabama". Please let me know. Im really curious. dont worry about hurting my feelings. Ive heard it all.

Its funny because we always kid my dad about being so......I dunno....rural. We are city people. going to Vermont is a little bit of culture shock. Not because the people are different so much as....well, as I said, we're city ppl. Vermont is the most rural state in the union. It still shocks me when we go to Burlington and ppl call it "the city" lol Dont get me wrong, I LOVE it. I love almost everything about Vermont. I also love Birmingham. I wouldn't want to give either one of them up.

Please, tell me where the pocket of Alabama are and when I go Ill check it out and see if its so. Just kidding. I really must say I dont know a whole/whole lot about rural Alabama. Just a little.

well anyway. Ill see y'all (yes, that is a word) in February. lol
eeyore

[arel]

Is it really true that Vermont is the most rural state in the county?

Isn't most of the country rural?

What does it mean to say Vermont is the most rural? Is it the most rural in terms of the percent of the state's land being rural, in terms of the rural character and culture of the state, in terms of the government's priorities, and/or in terms of the fewest large or even medium-sized cities? The capital, Montpelier, has about 7500 people! Not 75 thousand, but 75 hundred!

Is rural to be distinguished from wilderness? Wyoming, I think, has fewer people than Vermont, and its land mass is huge. Vermont can't be more rural than Wyoming, unless by rural you mean farms, etc, as opposed to Wyoming's wilderness areas, including protected wilderness areas.

[Eeyore]

That statistic is based on the percentage of the population that live in "rural" areas.

Im not sure how "rural" is defined.

eeyore

[looking4home]

Nice posts, Hookie, but I gotta tell you that Vermont is an Aries, not a Pisces. A 4/4/1791 b-day would make V-mont an Aries, the sign of the Ram. Maybe that's better, anyway - Pisces are moody!

[MRVphotog]

Originally Posted by arel

Is it really true that Vermont is the most rural state in the county?

Isn't most of the country rural?

What does it mean to say Vermont is the most rural? Is it the most rural in terms of the percent of the state's land being rural, in terms of the rural character and culture of the state, in terms of the government's priorities, and/or in terms of the fewest large or even medium-sized cities? The capital, Montpelier, has about 7500 people! Not 75 thousand, but 75 hundred!

Is rural to be distinguished from wilderness? Wyoming, I think, has fewer people than Vermont, and its land mass is huge. Vermont can't be more rural than Wyoming, unless by rural you mean farms, etc, as opposed to Wyoming's wilderness areas, including protected wilderness areas.

Yup, Wyoming is definately more rural Vermont, towns are basically 100 miles apart. I moved to Wyoming from Vermont and when I moved back after 23 years out there I couldn't get over how easy it was to get from the center of Vermont to my buddies place in central NH.