Yikes--Is it really that bad? (live, business, demographics)
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Yeah, I guess it's not the overall "culture" that's surprising (the area we live in isn't really all that "southern" anyway). It's more the assumption of religious and social conservatism that is a little off-putting. We're used to religion (or lack thereof) being more of a private thing. Here it's more taken for granted that "of course" you're religious (because almost everybody is), and it comes up (often) in conversation. This kind of puts us in the position of either playing along or making our values known--something we didn't really have to deal with in the north...Maybe a small thing for some people, but fairly annoying for us.
Last edited by artistatheart; 02-22-2012 at 07:22 AM..
We're used to religion (or lack thereof) being more of a private thing. Here it's more taken for granted that "of course" you're religious (because almost everybody is), and it comes up (often) in conversation. This kind of puts us in the position of either playing along or making our values known--something we didn't really have to deal with in the north...Maybe a small thing for some people, but fairly annoying for us.
In my search for a retirement location, I ruled out the entire South, in part because of the Christian culture. That doesn't seem to be a problem in New England. The country has become so polarized lately I've started to wonder whether Lincoln was right not to let the Confederacy secede. If a Southern Christian social conservative ever becomes president of the U.S., I'll support the secession of Vermont. There's a limit to the amount of stupidity I can handle.
That must be such a sad attitude for many New Englanders to deal with, especially those whose families go back generations. Historically, while there has always been a certain amount of MYOB to the regional character, there's no doubt that the traditional Yankee character was formed by Judeo-Christian values, and that was reflected in their hard work, self-reliance, thriftiness, and deep-abiding faith. But I know things change, sometimes dramatically, and I think Vermont is a good example of that.
That must be such a sad attitude for many New Englanders to deal with, especially those whose families go back generations. Historically, while there has always been a certain amount of MYOB to the regional character, there's no doubt that the traditional Yankee character was formed by Judeo-Christian values, and that was reflected in their hard work, self-reliance, thriftiness, and deep-abiding faith. But I know things change, sometimes dramatically, and I think Vermont is a good example of that.
I wasn't slamming all Christians - just the loud Bible Belt types and those who infuse politics with religion. Today, the Protestants in New England are probably more like the Protestants in Europe than those in the South.
The Yankee values go all the way back to Calvinism, which in the U.S. unfortunately morphed into the aggressive materialism that tarnishes American credibility to this day. One of Vermont's virtues is that it never took the "greed is good" path to the same extent as other parts of the country - but that may only be the result of geographic isolation.
In my search for a retirement location, I ruled out the entire South, in part because of the Christian culture. That doesn't seem to be a problem in New England. The country has become so polarized lately I've started to wonder whether Lincoln was right not to let the Confederacy secede. If a Southern Christian social conservative ever becomes president of the U.S., I'll support the secession of Vermont. There's a limit to the amount of stupidity I can handle.
That is exactly why I don't move south for warmer weather. I spent three years in South Carolina, where my mother's family lives, and it was the worst three years of my life. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
It depends on what your kids are like as people. For example i cant wait to leave and go to a city but my sister is perfectloy happy livingin vermont. I do have the added benefit of living close to Dartmouth College and there are events, but if you do not have a car it takes about a half hour to an hour to get into Lebanon and Hanover i.e. Dartmouth College and the major shopping centers so you can feel isolated as a teen.
Regarding the doom-and-gloom posters, I think some of those who've lived in Vermont for a long time don't fully understand that there are structural changes going on in the U.S. economy, and that people are under a lot of stress everywhere, not just here. For example, most young males are getting lousy, low-paying jobs throughout the country. These posters also don't seem to understand that rural states have small economies, which simply means less jobs. Most people who have the proper training for good jobs that have openings seem to be doing fine here. There's just a trade-off between lots of jobs/crowded, ugly environment and few jobs/expansive, beautiful environment. You can't have both.
Highly recommend this post; condenses a number of issues very nicely...
Vermont is quite expensive to those who are expecting a lower cost-of-living from a rural state. The real key to living a decent life in VT is finding suitable employment, and there just aren't that many to be had..
Highly recommend this post; condenses a number of issues very nicely...
Vermont is quite expensive to those who are expecting a lower cost-of-living from a rural state. The real key to living a decent life in VT is finding suitable employment, and there just aren't that many to be had..
Completely agree as well, I believe people who live in Vermont and don't make a livable income are frustrated. Most rural states or areas of the country are more affordable. This was the case with Vermont several years ago. Incomes were low, but so were rents, home prices, utilities, etc. I sympathize with those making $12 or less per hour unable to not only afford a home, but they are also spending a large % of income on rents. It's a given there will not be the number of jobs available because of the states rural nature.
Yeah, I guess it's not the overall "culture" that's surprising (the area we live in isn't really all that "southern" anyway). It's more the assumption of religious and social conservatism that is a little off-putting. We're used to religion (or lack thereof) being more of a private thing. Here it's more taken for granted that "of course" you're religious (because almost everybody is), and it comes up (often) in conversation. This kind of puts us in the position of either playing along or making our values known--something we didn't really have to deal with in the north...Maybe a small thing for some people, but fairly annoying for us.
It's the opposite in Vermont: most people just assume that you're not religious. I believe a Pew Institute Poll found that Vermont is the least religious state.
I moved here from NJ which is certainly not an overly religious place (most of my friends and family were non-practicing Catholics). But people there respected other's rights to believe as they wanted to. I seldom heard disparaging remarks about Christians or other religious groups.
Here it's been a different ball of wax. I'm a Christian, though not the type to thump my Bible or start talking about religious issues at work. I work in a very liberal profession and I've been taken aback by the comments some of my coworkers have made.
They assume all Christians believe the world was created in 6 literal days; don't believe in science; believe men are superior to women; hate gays, etc. It's as if because they've had little contact with average Christians they look at some of the radical ones in the news and judge all of us accordingly.
They know I'm involved with my church, but again since I don't talk about it all the time, they often forget.
Sometimes they'll make a wise crack about some religious person or denomination and then catch themselves and say, "Don't worry, Lisa. We know you're not like that." To me that's like saying something disparaging about blacks and then turning to a black coworker and saying, "We're not talking about you. You're one of those well-spoken, well-educated, law-abiding blacks."
It can be frustrating at times just as it would be frustrating for a non-religious person to live in the Bible belt.
Last edited by LisaMc46; 02-25-2012 at 03:37 PM..
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