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View Poll Results: So Where Are You From?
Vermont 10 34.48%
Someplace Else 19 65.52%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-12-2012, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Wildomar, CA
31 posts, read 75,187 times
Reputation: 42

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Exactly! There are those who proudly say things like "I'm 7th generation in this state"--so they're implying that no one in their family ever considered living somewhere else, no one had the guts to try something different? Its quite easy to stay in one spot ( state) for your entire life--it takes a little effort/daring to try something new, and not settle for the same "same ol, same ol"....

Who says it is a lack of "guts" that makes people stay in VT?

I left 25 years ago and have to been to every state in the nation and over seas as well. I have seen and experienced many things and have priceless memories.

On the other hand, my best friend back home has never left. he lives in the same town he was born in, built a house right up the road from the one he was raised in. He worked hard, built a business, raised a family, is well known and respected. He planted his roots and is well entrenched.

I have asked him before why he never left and didn't he want to see other places? His reply was that every thing he needed to see was right here and he didn't need to leave.

Now, all these years later he has an extended family, is retired and lives his life in peace. He has plenty of beautiful memories of his family growing up and having their own kids. He and his wife are happy with their little patch of earth and their best times are holidays when the entire family can get together.

Me, on the other hand, while having my memories of exotic places, people I've met and things I've seen, have no kids and no extended family and no roots. As I get older I see my friends that live here and have what my buddy back home has.

I can't go into the local hardware store and see guys I've known all my life. I don't have a "Cheers" bar where everyone knows my name. I don't have a homestead that's known as "the old ChiliPepper Place" that locals use as a place marker when giving directions. While I have a beautiful house, I have no place to go home too.

I don't think it took any particular guts for me to leave VT. I was just restless and bored and wanted something new. I think it would have taken more guts to stay and stick it out than to leave.

VT has changed a lot since i was born there in 1956. Some say for the better but I don't. I guess if you don't care about tradition and preserving history then changing the place is okay. I give credit to people like my friend that knew a good thing when he saw it and tried to keep it like it was. I think that took more guts then the path I chose.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:50 PM
 
7,562 posts, read 9,410,110 times
Reputation: 8857
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliPepperGarage View Post
Who says it is a lack of "guts" that makes people stay in VT?

I left 25 years ago and have to been to every state in the nation and over seas as well. I have seen and experienced many things and have priceless memories.

On the other hand, my best friend back home has never left. he lives in the same town he was born in, built a house right up the road from the one he was raised in. He worked hard, built a business, raised a family, is well known and respected. He planted his roots and is well entrenched.

I have asked him before why he never left and didn't he want to see other places? His reply was that every thing he needed to see was right here and he didn't need to leave.

Now, all these years later he has an extended family, is retired and lives his life in peace. He has plenty of beautiful memories of his family growing up and having their own kids. He and his wife are happy with their little patch of earth and their best times are holidays when the entire family can get together.

Me, on the other hand, while having my memories of exotic places, people I've met and things I've seen, have no kids and no extended family and no roots. As I get older I see my friends that live here and have what my buddy back home has.

I can't go into the local hardware store and see guys I've known all my life. I don't have a "Cheers" bar where everyone knows my name. I don't have a homestead that's known as "the old ChiliPepper Place" that locals use as a place marker when giving directions. While I have a beautiful house, I have no place to go home too.

I don't think it took any particular guts for me to leave VT. I was just restless and bored and wanted something new. I think it would have taken more guts to stay and stick it out than to leave.

VT has changed a lot since i was born there in 1956. Some say for the better but I don't. I guess if you don't care about tradition and preserving history then changing the place is okay. I give credit to people like my friend that knew a good thing when he saw it and tried to keep it like it was. I think that took more guts then the path I chose.
I understand, but in fact, I remember an episode of "Cheers" when Sam was fed up with everything about the bar, and the hangers-on who seemed to spend their entire lives there, and insisted that he wanted to "get back into the game" (of life)...

It's quite possible to settle for things familiar and close, and actually miss something better somewhere else, if you lack a sense of curiosity. The phrase "he's been here too long" is one I've heard many times in my life, about other people, and they're often right. Such people are afraid of change, and don't know how to handle it. They claim that "all their friends are here", denying the possibility that they could make new ones in a different location. They stay because it's easier to stay.

And BTW, I talking about moving away, not just taking a vacation. Vacationing is easy, but moving to another state takes effort and determination, and the confidence that you can start anew and still become a part of a new community. I'm not in favor of constant moving, but I do believe that everyone should live a a state that's not their native one, because it will broaden their horizens, and make them better people.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:14 PM
 
890 posts, read 2,561,544 times
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Wow, this thread has turned into a Dr. Phil therapy session!!!
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:49 AM
 
444 posts, read 683,889 times
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The use of the term "flatlander" is a mild form of xenophobia that provides comfort to locals who feel invaded. There's also the connotation that the flatlanders come from lower ground and are therefore inferior in some respect. But it's all relative, because the mountains in Vermont are small. My son-in-law grew up in Namche Bazaar at 11,000 feet - nearly three times higher than anywhere in Vermont. The nearby mountains are all 20,000 feet plus. We are all flatlanders!
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Wildomar, CA
31 posts, read 75,187 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
I understand, but in fact, I remember an episode of "Cheers" when Sam was fed up with everything about the bar, and the hangers-on who seemed to spend their entire lives there, and insisted that he wanted to "get back into the game" (of life)...

It's quite possible to settle for things familiar and close, and actually miss something better somewhere else, if you lack a sense of curiosity. The phrase "he's been here too long" is one I've heard many times in my life, about other people, and they're often right. Such people are afraid of change, and don't know how to handle it. They claim that "all their friends are here", denying the possibility that they could make new ones in a different location. They stay because it's easier to stay.

And BTW, I talking about moving away, not just taking a vacation. Vacationing is easy, but moving to another state takes effort and determination, and the confidence that you can start anew and still become a part of a new community. I'm not in favor of constant moving, but I do believe that everyone should live a a state that's not their native one, because it will broaden their horizens, and make them better people.

Ah, but Sam never did leave did he?

I have to disagree that it is always easier to stay. Sometimes, it is easier to leave and like the old say goes, "no matter where you go, there you are"! In other words, it doesn't make any difference what state you live in, you are still the same person.

I don't agree that everyone should live in a different state to broaden their horizons. While it is great to experience different things you certainly can do that by going on vacations and see sights. And I vehemently disagree that it will make them better people.

Like I said, I've been in every state in the country and lived in many. My traveling has been by truck, car and motorcycles and they were not just passing through travels. I always take the blue highways when possible and make as many stops as I can. I like to explore local sites, not the tourist stops. I've gotten to meet many great people along the way and learned a lot.

What I learned the most is people are all the same. No matter what state you live in, there are good and there are bad and I've seen the best and the worst. The things I've seen and experienced have made me what I am but not necessarily a better person had I stayed in VT. Heck, Ted Bundy lived in a lot of different places and it did make him better!

I live in beautiful Southern California now, primary because you can't beat the weather. Like anywhere else, there are good and there are bad, and believe me, there are a lot of bad! As I get older I long to go back to my roots and move back to VT or NH. But I can't because I no longer have roots there. My family has all moved away to other states too.

MassVT, I am assuming you are a younger person and have not yet done your traveling. By no means am I trying to discourage you from doing so. In fact I always tell younger people to travel as much as possible, preferably by car and take your time. Don't drive by the world's largest ball of string because you want to make the next city by 7PM!

But, before you set out on your adventures, take the time to start locally. Think of it as practice for you long travels. Get to know the old farmer down the road, visit an apple orchard, volunteer to tap some maple trees, go to Quechee Gorge and spit off the bridge, climb Camel's Hump, take a picture of every covered bridge in the state, go to the capital building in Montpelier, milk a cow, get stuck in the mud, go to a town you haven't been to before and find the local dinner sit at the bar and talk to the waitress, find a guy with a plow truck and ride along for one night, go to a local PD and do a ride along, help an old lady shovel her driveway, hit a deer with your car (okay, you can skip that one), go on a bicycling & camping trip across the state, go to the fair, sit on the side of a creek and stick your feet in the water, skip a rock, sit on a park bench and watch the people (you can make derogatory remarks about the flatlander tourists ), eat some apple pie and cheddah cheese. VT has a lot to offer, soak it up while you can. Once you leave, it's hard to go back and the grass isn't always greener.

I know I'm long winded but one last story:

A very successful business consultant was on vacation in Mexico. While sitting at a seaside cafe he sees a local fisherman dock his small boat. The fisherman gets out of the boat with a couple fish and walks towards the cafe. The consultant feels he has to help this poor guy out so he asks him, "How come you only caught two fish?". The fisherman says, "because that's all I need to feed my family today".

The consultant says,"You should catch more fish and freeze them, then you'd only have to fish once a week and you could sell the extra fish. You could hire another guy and pay him to catch fish. You could get a whole fleet of boats and fisherman and then sell your fish to a big company. Sure, it would be stressful and take all your time but you could make lots of money."

The fisherman looks at the consultant and asks, "Once I do all this work for years and make all this money, then what would I do?"

The consultant replies, "Why then you could retire, but a little place by the sea and spend the rest of your life fishing from a small boat!".

The consultant now lives in a little seaside village in Mexico.

Last edited by ChiliPepperGarage; 03-13-2012 at 09:05 AM..
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Wildomar, CA
31 posts, read 75,187 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldorell View Post
The use of the term "flatlander" is a mild form of xenophobia that provides comfort to locals who feel invaded. There's also the connotation that the flatlanders come from lower ground and are therefore inferior in some respect. But it's all relative, because the mountains in Vermont are small. My son-in-law grew up in Namche Bazaar at 11,000 feet - nearly three times higher than anywhere in Vermont. The nearby mountains are all 20,000 feet plus. We are all flatlanders!

A Flatlander has nothing to do with geography. It has to do with attitude, not altitude. It is used to speak of folks (usually from the big city) that come to VT and act with arrogance, thinking that everyone who lives there is in the tourist industry and should cater to their needs and wants. Flatlanders think VTers are stupid inferior hicks (think Daryl & Daryl, Bob Newhart show) and treat them so.

If you visit (or move to) VT and treat people with respect, not like the place is your private playland, well we'll probably still call you a flatlander but it will be in good natured ribbing and not facetious.

(I'm on a roll this morning)
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:10 AM
 
444 posts, read 683,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliPepperGarage View Post
A Flatlander has nothing to do with geography.
That may be how some Vermonters think of the term, but the etymology comes from people at a higher elevation referring to people from a lower elevation.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Wildomar, CA
31 posts, read 75,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldorell View Post
That may be how some Vermonters think of the term, but the etymology comes from people at a higher elevation referring to people from a lower elevation.

You must be a professor or something!

I think we all know the literal meaning of the word. I don't recall anyone in VT bragging about at what elevation the live. If your place is at 3500 feet and mine is at 3600 I'm not going to call you a flatlander!

Many places have their derogatory phrases for outsiders. Like I said, it's about attitude, not altitude. If you went to NY City and started complaining about how everyone is rude, the city is too crowded, it's too expensive, etc. they will have some choice words for you too!

If you are a decent person and treat people with respect, you could be from Death Valley (lowest and flattest place I know) and you won't be labeled a flatlander.

But you could come from a city like Denver at 5K feet and still be called a flatlander if you're a jerk.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:51 AM
 
444 posts, read 683,889 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliPepperGarage View Post
You must be a professor or something!

I think we all know the literal meaning of the word. I don't recall anyone in VT bragging about at what elevation the live. If your place is at 3500 feet and mine is at 3600 I'm not going to call you a flatlander!

Many places have their derogatory phrases for outsiders. Like I said, it's about attitude, not altitude. If you went to NY City and started complaining about how everyone is rude, the city is too crowded, it's too expensive, etc. they will have some choice words for you too!

If you are a decent person and treat people with respect, you could be from Death Valley (lowest and flattest place I know) and you won't be labeled a flatlander.

But you could come from a city like Denver at 5K feet and still be called a flatlander if you're a jerk.
Well, let's just say that if my family had lived here for several generations, and someone visiting from New Jersey acted like a jerk, I'd call him a jerk, not a flatlander.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Wildomar, CA
31 posts, read 75,187 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldorell View Post
Well, let's just say that if my family had lived here for several generations, and someone visiting from New Jersey acted like a jerk, I'd call him a jerk, not a flatlander.
I guess that's because your family hasn't lived here for several generations!

I'm not sure of your point here. What difference does it make if you call them a flatlander or a jerk? Either way you are just insulting them. We all have our favorite insult words. Mine is doody head.
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