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I guess that's because your family hasn't lived here for several generations!
I'm not sure of your point here. What difference does it make if you call them a flatlander or a jerk? Either way you are just insulting them. We all have our favorite insult words. Mine is doody head.
"Jerk" is a word that refers to an individual. "Flatlander" is a word that refers to a class of individuals, so it expresses disapproval of thousands or millions of people who may never have done anything offensive. In other words, "flatlander" loosely resembles an ethnic slur.
I have to disagree that it is always easier to stay. Sometimes, it is easier to leave and like the old say goes, "no matter where you go, there you are"! In other words, it doesn't make any difference what state you live in, you are still the same person.
I don't agree that everyone should live in a different state to broaden their horizons. While it is great to experience different things you certainly can do that by going on vacations and see sights. And I vehemently disagree that it will make them better people.
Like I said, I've been in every state in the country and lived in many. My traveling has been by truck, car and motorcycles and they were not just passing through travels. I always take the blue highways when possible and make as many stops as I can. I like to explore local sites, not the tourist stops. I've gotten to meet many great people along the way and learned a lot.
What I learned the most is people are all the same. No matter what state you live in, there are good and there are bad and I've seen the best and the worst. The things I've seen and experienced have made me what I am but not necessarily a better person had I stayed in VT. Heck, Ted Bundy lived in a lot of different places and it did make him better!
I live in beautiful Southern California now, primary because you can't beat the weather. Like anywhere else, there are good and there are bad, and believe me, there are a lot of bad! As I get older I long to go back to my roots and move back to VT or NH. But I can't because I no longer have roots there. My family has all moved away to other states too.
MassVT, I am assuming you are a younger person and have not yet done your traveling. By no means am I trying to discourage you from doing so. In fact I always tell younger people to travel as much as possible, preferably by car and take your time. Don't drive by the world's largest ball of string because you want to make the next city by 7PM!
But, before you set out on your adventures, take the time to start locally. Think of it as practice for you long travels. Get to know the old farmer down the road, visit an apple orchard, volunteer to tap some maple trees, go to Quechee Gorge and spit off the bridge, climb Camel's Hump, take a picture of every covered bridge in the state, go to the capital building in Montpelier, milk a cow, get stuck in the mud, go to a town you haven't been to before and find the local dinner sit at the bar and talk to the waitress, find a guy with a plow truck and ride along for one night, go to a local PD and do a ride along, help an old lady shovel her driveway, hit a deer with your car (okay, you can skip that one), go on a bicycling & camping trip across the state, go to the fair, sit on the side of a creek and stick your feet in the water, skip a rock, sit on a park bench and watch the people (you can make derogatory remarks about the flatlander tourists ), eat some apple pie and cheddah cheese. VT has a lot to offer, soak it up while you can. Once you leave, it's hard to go back and the grass isn't always greener.
I know I'm long winded but one last story:
A very successful business consultant was on vacation in Mexico. While sitting at a seaside cafe he sees a local fisherman dock his small boat. The fisherman gets out of the boat with a couple fish and walks towards the cafe. The consultant feels he has to help this poor guy out so he asks him, "How come you only caught two fish?". The fisherman says, "because that's all I need to feed my family today".
The consultant says,"You should catch more fish and freeze them, then you'd only have to fish once a week and you could sell the extra fish. You could hire another guy and pay him to catch fish. You could get a whole fleet of boats and fisherman and then sell your fish to a big company. Sure, it would be stressful and take all your time but you could make lots of money."
The fisherman looks at the consultant and asks, "Once I do all this work for years and make all this money, then what would I do?"
The consultant replies, "Why then you could retire, but a little place by the sea and spend the rest of your life fishing from a small boat!".
The consultant now lives in a little seaside village in Mexico.
Just to clarify, I'm in my 50s, so I have been around a block or two in my life, and have lived in a few states, and I will likely add at least one more before all is said and done, but I'm way behind those who move every single year ( that's not a goal of mine, to put it mildly)...
If someone is truly content being in one place for his entire life, then he certainly has the right to stay put--if leaving makes him unhappy, then there's no reason to....but I still think that he's missing out on something.
The fisherman might have enjoyed NYC, but he'll never find out if he never tries..
"Jerk" is a word that refers to an individual. "Flatlander" is a word that refers to a class of individuals, so it expresses disapproval of thousands or millions of people who may never have done anything offensive. In other words, "flatlander" loosely resembles an ethnic slur.
Dude (hope you don't consider that an offensive word! ), chill out!
Me thinks thou protests too much. Are you a flatlander per chance?
Most of us who have lived in VT & NH use the term both derogatorily and endearingly, depending on the recipient. I guess for you it is not politically correct but it is ridiculous to think of it as an ethnic slur or anything close to it.
You could just as easily use the word "outsider or "non-Vermonter" or "leaf peeper" or "tourist" or even "visitor". These would all describe a class of individuals.
The only people it expresses disapproval of is the particular person it is directed too. I've had many friends that moved to VT & NH from other areas that are great people and we still call them "Ya Dang Flatlander!" and laugh about it.
I'm going to start another thread asking when does a flatlander stop being a flatlander and considered a local?
If I had moved to VT from somewhere else I'd get a vanity plate that says FLTLNDR just for fun!
Just to clarify, I'm in my 50s, so I have been around a block or two in my life, and have lived in a few states, and I will likely add at least one more before all is said and done, but I'm way behind those who move every single year ( that's not a goal of mine, to put it mildly)...
If someone is truly content being in one place for his entire life, then he certainly has the right to stay put--if leaving makes him unhappy, then there's no reason to....but I still think that he's missing out on something.
The fisherman might have enjoyed NYC, but he'll never find out if he never tries..
Good point. On the other hand, it's like the guy that never gets married because he is always thinking the next girl that comes along will be better! Of course he could go visit NYC and may find it's not for him (or is).
Out of curiosity, what states have you lived in, what made you go there and why did you leave? What did you learn from living there?
Good point. On the other hand, it's like the guy that never gets married because he is always thinking the next girl that comes along will be better! Of course he could go visit NYC and may find it's not for him (or is).
Out of curiosity, what states have you lived in, what made you go there and why did you leave? What did you learn from living there?
Besides MA and VT, I've also lived in (far) upstate NY and Madison, WI. Moving out of upstate NY to VT ( Burlington) was a family move, and ultimately heartily endorsed by everyone in the family; I moved to Madison for a job, which turned out to be disappointing, but the city itself was fantastic, and truly one of the nicest places to live in the US. I've lived in the Boston area for about 25 years, nice enough and satisfying in a career sense, but I don't want to live here forever, either. I've considered Chicago for years, visited quite a bit, still weighing the possibilities...and I'm still traveling a little too, when time and money permit..
I think that VT stacks up fairly well with other states, but in some ways it's still a bit out of the mainstream of American life ( Burlington being the exception). It's a subjective statement, and no doubt some will disagree, but when visiting Chicago, or LA, or going about my business in Boston, I feel more in step with the rythym of the nation than when I'm in Vermont. Now VT is more like a vacation to me, a pause in a busy month, a more tranquil existence...and at times, that's just what I need. But when I left VT, I needed to get away. Staying there any longer would have been a big mistake, and I knew it.
I don't know if VT is out of the mainstream of the nation. If so, maybe that's a good thing?!?
I wouldn't say LA is in the mainstream of the nation either. Maybe in the hyped up, biased media portrayal of what is USA mainstream but not in the real world.
It seems you gravitate towards the bigger cities and if that's what you like I can see how VT would not be for you.
I left for mostly economic reasons and is why I don't go back (to live). If I won the lottery I'd certainly have a home there but it would be part time as I am now a warm weather wimp!
I too lived in upstate NY. Again, while everywhere has it's bad people for the most part they were good hardworking honest people with good values. Mostly blue collar or ag, they would help you out if needed and lived their lives in peace. Lot of people could fix there own stuff.
My sister lived in Madison and they loved it there. Her husband was aa prof at NorthWestern. Weather can be rough.
I lived in the Tacoma area for a couple years. Beautiful scenery, incredible for outdoor activities but again, dreary weather. I couldn't take not seeing the sun for weeks at a time in the winter. Everything is cold and wet.
Good people though except for in Tacoma itself. I guess I'm not a city guy but there were a lot of dishonest & rude folks. Not a very sophisticated city either but Seattle was just up the road.
I had the misfortune of living in Las Vegas for three years. Horrible place! Extremely hot, very corrupt, sour unfriendly people, no sence of community and of course lots of crooks. What do you expect for a place that advertises to come here, do what ever you want and we won't tell? Th only good the about What Happens In Vegas Stays In Vegas is when OJ came to town and had to stay!
Miami: great boating, too crowded, too many transient people (not homeless, but people who come and go). Hot!
Austin (hill country): Hot too, but wonderful people, lots to do and see, great (Texas) culture, music, and BBW. Texas is it's own kind of place.
Northern CA: Again, incredible scenery. Fantastic roads for motorcycles and fast cars (I'm into both), great weather, good people (out of the cities). I lived in Calaveras County (Home of Mark Twain's frog jumping contest story - Angels Camp) and is goldrush country, about an hour to Lake Tahoe and Yosemite. Lots of interesting characters and small towns tucked away in the hills and mountains.
Sac and the cities have some interesting history too but the people suck. Lots of crime, gangs, and dirtbags.
SF: beautiful city with tons to see and do. Great food, but lots of goofy people. Also a very transient place with everybody coming and going. Can be very cold and wet. Still one of my favorite place to visit, not live.
LA: la la land. All the crap you hear about it is true. Just filled with messed up people. There is a lot of cool stuff to see and do (think Randy Newman's "I Love LA") and I've experienced most of it. Traffic! It can take me 3 hours to go 60 miles!
San Diego: Another great place but becoming increasingly filled with bad people. Like LA and SF, a big tourist attraction and also very transient. If you could get rid of 3/4 of the population it would be paradise! Mission bay and SD Bay are a blast to boat on.
I am now in a small rural area about half way between LA and SD. I have a little one acre ranch in an isolated area. My property taxes are $1820 per year! While there are bedroom community cities nearby I try to avoid them as much as possible doing my shopping and such during mid-week.
CA has some idiotic politics and is in great financial trouble, I try to keep to myself in my little pocket of solitude.
So I'm here for now and maybe forever. Maybe someday I will feel like I have roots here but deep inside I will always feel like VT is my home.
I don't know if VT is out of the mainstream of the nation. If so, maybe that's a good thing?!?
I wouldn't say LA is in the mainstream of the nation either. Maybe in the hyped up, biased media portrayal of what is USA mainstream but not in the real world.
It seems you gravitate towards the bigger cities and if that's what you like I can see how VT would not be for you.
I left for mostly economic reasons and is why I don't go back (to live). If I won the lottery I'd certainly have a home there but it would be part time as I am now a warm weather wimp!
I too lived in upstate NY. Again, while everywhere has it's bad people for the most part they were good hardworking honest people with good values. Mostly blue collar or ag, they would help you out if needed and lived their lives in peace. Lot of people could fix there own stuff.
My sister lived in Madison and they loved it there. Her husband was aa prof at NorthWestern. Weather can be rough.
I lived in the Tacoma area for a couple years. Beautiful scenery, incredible for outdoor activities but again, dreary weather. I couldn't take not seeing the sun for weeks at a time in the winter. Everything is cold and wet.
Good people though except for in Tacoma itself. I guess I'm not a city guy but there were a lot of dishonest & rude folks. Not a very sophisticated city either but Seattle was just up the road.
I had the misfortune of living in Las Vegas for three years. Horrible place! Extremely hot, very corrupt, sour unfriendly people, no sence of community and of course lots of crooks. What do you expect for a place that advertises to come here, do what ever you want and we won't tell? Th only good the about What Happens In Vegas Stays In Vegas is when OJ came to town and had to stay!
Miami: great boating, too crowded, too many transient people (not homeless, but people who come and go). Hot!
Austin (hill country): Hot too, but wonderful people, lots to do and see, great (Texas) culture, music, and BBW. Texas is it's own kind of place.
Northern CA: Again, incredible scenery. Fantastic roads for motorcycles and fast cars (I'm into both), great weather, good people (out of the cities). I lived in Calaveras County (Home of Mark Twain's frog jumping contest story - Angels Camp) and is goldrush country, about an hour to Lake Tahoe and Yosemite. Lots of interesting characters and small towns tucked away in the hills and mountains.
Sac and the cities have some interesting history too but the people suck. Lots of crime, gangs, and dirtbags.
SF: beautiful city with tons to see and do. Great food, but lots of goofy people. Also a very transient place with everybody coming and going. Can be very cold and wet. Still one of my favorite place to visit, not live.
LA: la la land. All the crap you hear about it is true. Just filled with messed up people. There is a lot of cool stuff to see and do (think Randy Newman's "I Love LA") and I've experienced most of it. Traffic! It can take me 3 hours to go 60 miles!
San Diego: Another great place but becoming increasingly filled with bad people. Like LA and SF, a big tourist attraction and also very transient. If you could get rid of 3/4 of the population it would be paradise! Mission bay and SD Bay are a blast to boat on.
I am now in a small rural area about half way between LA and SD. I have a little one acre ranch in an isolated area. My property taxes are $1820 per year! While there are bedroom community cities nearby I try to avoid them as much as possible doing my shopping and such during mid-week.
CA has some idiotic politics and is in great financial trouble, I try to keep to myself in my little pocket of solitude.
So I'm here for now and maybe forever. Maybe someday I will feel like I have roots here but deep inside I will always feel like VT is my home.
Nice post, and a good summary of various points in the US; I have heard that at one time, Sacramento was quite a nice place, but crime has made a negative impact; LA is fascinating, as is NYC, just for the contrast; everyone should at least visit both, just to see how the other half lives.
I still have great affection for the Upper Midwest, including Chicago, Madison, Milwaukee and Minn-St. Paul. A beautiful mix of dairy farmland, forest and lakes, and great people. I think that the official state food of Wisconsin is bratwurst..
I still think of myself as a transplanted Vermonter, and I do hope that VT will try to keep those qualities that make it unique. ( The most noticeable thing: how clean it is--startling contrast from Boston and NYC). I don't rule out retiring in VT, but it probably won't happen, because of another phrase you may have heard somewhere: You can't go home again.
I am. Looks like I'm outnumbered by the "flatlanders" so far though...
If a Vermonter, not born in Vermont, but born in the in Daks, White Mtn area, western Maine, western NC, all the Rocky Mtn states, mountain regions of the west coast.....it is you, who is the "flatlander". If you were born in Burlington, you might be a flatlander or maybe a city-slicker. If you were born in the Champlain Valley, you might be a flatlander. If you were born in Vermont but drive a Volvo, you might be a flatlander. If your born in Vermont and try to drive up a closed gap in the winter, you might be a flatlander, if you don't know there is no sales tax on clothes in Vermont, you might be a flatlander, if you think "stick" season has something to do with baseball you might be a flatlander.
When I returned to Vermont in 1996(left in 1974), from living 22 years at 7200ft in northwestern Wyoming some damn fool in Burlington called me a flatlander. I laughed so hard I almost fell over.
Since I'm not Abenacki I am not a native Vermonter.
Last edited by MRVphotog; 03-13-2012 at 10:04 PM..
Then there is the genteel way of putting it, namely "oh he is from away."
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), eat some apple pie and cheddah cheese. VT has a lot to offer, soak it up while you can. Once you leave, it's hard to go back and the grass isn't always greener. 
