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Old 10-15-2007, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,898,152 times
Reputation: 450

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68vette View Post
I mentioned a month or so ago that you don't always get the chance to appreciate the quality of life here in Vermont due to having to work and do so much to survive. Some of us have luck and don't need to work as many jobs, but there always seems to be more things to do in a day that is possible to enjoy the quality of life.

That could be true. And the scenery can get pretty stale after a while, if you see it every day. Especially if you are miserable at work.

So if I move up to Vermont, there is a good chance that I can look forward to long hours in miserable working conditions, and then, after horrific taxes, having an income totally inadequate for the very high cost of living.

Maybe, then, Vermont is like what people used to say about New York City, i.e. a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

So with all this negativity, why do people move there, and, more importantly stay there? I can understand people moving there and becoming disillusioned and disappointed, but why do people stay?

Also, as a licensed mental health professional, can I look forward to something better and more liveable than what has been described on this thread? Therapists I have been in contact with speak highly of the quality of life they enjoy in Brattleboro. One has been there for 30 years. I have been told that therapists can make a decent living.
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Old 10-16-2007, 03:04 AM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,057,353 times
Reputation: 925
It is possible to do well and live a nice life here. Many people do. There are many who come and don't stay as well. Working at FAHC there is a large turnover of people who come and leave within a years time(this is what I base much of my experience on). The pay isn't the big problem in my opinion. It's a combination of the taxes, the weather(outside of summer), and the higher cost of living. The hospital uses what are called travelers(healthcare workers who travel all over the country for an agency, and sign on under a contract with hospitals for three months at a time when hospitals are short staffed). These people are a wealth of information because many of then haved lived in all or near all of the US. The response most of them give is Vermont is a nice place to visit, but it costs way to much to live here and there are other places that are just as nice. I have a great job and I get paid very well for Vermont, but I look at family and friends who live in other parts of the country in similar towns with similar lifestyles and quality of life and they make more and put more into retirement and the bank. I could be happy here for the rest of my life, but for myself and my wife the long winters are taking a toll. The winters are what will force us to leave within the next ten years. That is just our situation. I have a good friend at work who loves winter and it could last 12 months and he would be happy. His deal breaker is affording to keep his head above water.

Vermont is a great state, but there is a reason there are only 600,000 people living here. It varies from person to person what that reason is. The weather, the cost of living, the high taxes, the lack of jobs and whatever other reason you may think of. http://www.ethanallen.org/pdf/OffTheRailsFINAL.pdf
This is and intresting report on what may potentially or will happen in Vermont in the next few years. If you read the report carefully, you will see that people aren't staying or more importantly young people aren't staying. Vermont is the second oldest state in the country behind Maine and will soon be the oldest. If you think about the tax implications, it is only going to get worse with a shrinking working age group. The other thing that may also happen is major cuts in programs like health care for those in need, human and social services(this could effect you Arel) and schools(most of our taxes in Vermont go towards education). I don't mean to sound depressing, but there is a major hurdle to get over in the next few years or Vermont could end up not being a good place to live.
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Western views of Mansfield/Camels Hump!
1,941 posts, read 3,228,155 times
Reputation: 1085
I feel like no matter where you go, there are positives and negatives. There is no perfect nirvana anywhere, it's just a matter of what you can deal with. We went to upstate NY this weekend to go apple picking and also to do a little scouting - to see if this one town would work as a possible place to move. Though the area was pretty, the traffic was horrendous and I could not imagine leaving NYC to move somewhere that is almost the same as what I deal with on a daily basis. Not to mention the insane property taxes (worse than VT), plus the fact that NYS still has some of the highest income taxes in the country. AND it took us 3 hours to get back, in what should have been a 90 minute drive.

I know that wherever I end up, it's going to be in the Northeast/New England. This corner of the country happens to be very expensive, and that is something I have accepted and have no problem with. So now it's a matter of finding a place that balances out all my wants/likes with the hopes of financial security. This may not be entirely possible, but I'm going to try and find something close to it.
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Old 10-16-2007, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Vermont
3,328 posts, read 8,766,227 times
Reputation: 1991
Arel - How do you know you would be miserable at your job? Like I said earlier, not everyone has bad experiences.
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,898,152 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by vter View Post
Arel - How do you know you would be miserable at your job? Like I said earlier, not everyone has bad experiences.
I don't know whether or not I would be miserable at my job.

But there are a lot of factors that give me pause.

1) Pay is much lower than I would get here in NYC, and the cost of living is almost as high.

2) There are fewer jobs, so there is more competition for fewer positions.

3) Employers can take advantage of that and treat people very badly.

4) If you are in an abusive job situation, you have few, if any, choices and little, if any, leverage. You have almost nowhere to go, and you could be easily replaced.

5) Commuting in the winter on icy roads and in the dark without street lights and with lots of impaired drivers is very daunting to think about.

6) As 68vette wrote, the situation is very likely to worsen as the population ages, with higher taxes and with cuts in services (and jobs).

Very sobering.

I guess, though, that it is good to know these things before moving to Vermont. That way you can plan for them and plan how to respond to them. It is also important to remember why you moved to Vermont in the first place, and why you moved from where you came from.
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Vermont
3,328 posts, read 8,766,227 times
Reputation: 1991
My feeling is that the people who move in from out of state who are most successful are those that really want to LIVE here. They'll do anything and everything to make that possible.

The people who don't make it are the ones who come here with rose colored glasses thinking they can just transplant their lives here and magically things will stay status-quo or be better....life just doesnt work that way.

Arel - I commend all your efforts with your research. If you do end up moving here, you'll have done so with open eyes and lots of great advice.
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Old 10-16-2007, 03:03 PM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,415,524 times
Reputation: 395
Having grown up in NYC I have to add a few comments. Even without an outstanding job here in Vermont I have to say that I never tire of the physical atmosphere. I personally would be much more depressed riding the miserable subway day after day just to come home to my alarmed and window barred apartment or house, not to mention paying the NY taxes which are actually very high even compared to Vt standards. To each his or her own. I can still can take a few trips down to NY to hit the beach, catch a game, or go to other events and each and every time I do I am even more satisfied that I got out of there when I did. Vermont's demographics pretty much explain what is going on here. Young and especially educated young folks do leave to seek opportunity. Vermont is the fastest aging state in the country. If you have the means to afford to retire here as obviously many do, then it can provide a perfect four season lifestyle. Myself and my wife don't envision staying here much more than five to six years from now as there are many other locales with a four season environment, rural but near services, and more inexpensive places to retire. Quite a few folks dismiss exposing negatives as bashing a place. On the contrary, I think it is important to be pragmatic and weigh all factors. Ultimately life itself is made up of a maze of tradeoffs and weighing pros and cons.
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Old 10-16-2007, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,057,353 times
Reputation: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by flu189 View Post
Having grown up in NYC I have to add a few comments. Even without an outstanding job here in Vermont I have to say that I never tire of the physical atmosphere. I personally would be much more depressed riding the miserable subway day after day just to come home to my alarmed and window barred apartment or house, not to mention paying the NY taxes which are actually very high even compared to Vt standards. To each his or her own. I can still can take a few trips down to NY to hit the beach, catch a game, or go to other events and each and every time I do I am even more satisfied that I got out of there when I did. Vermont's demographics pretty much explain what is going on here. Young and especially educated young folks do leave to seek opportunity. Vermont is the fastest aging state in the country. If you have the means to afford to retire here as obviously many do, then it can provide a perfect four season lifestyle. Myself and my wife don't envision staying here much more than five to six years from now as there are many other locales with a four season environment, rural but near services, and more inexpensive places to retire. Quite a few folks dismiss exposing negatives as bashing a place. On the contrary, I think it is important to be pragmatic and weigh all factors. Ultimately life itself is made up of a maze of tradeoffs and weighing pros and cons.
Very well said. I point out many of the positives as well as the negatives about living here. Everywhere has them. I just know what they are here as you know about the same in NYC or wherever you come from. One of the things I commend about Arel is the amount of time she is putting into research on moving. You just can't look at how things are today you also need to look at what the future will bring when you move. I live here now and I'm a little concerned about what the future is going to be like in Vermont. I know that a retired senior isn't going to be paying for most of the tax based programs and the state can't attract big companies to relieve some of the tax burden. Where is this money going to come from with a shrinking working population. My pocket as well as yours.

On the other hand the state can act on fixing many of these problems, but it needs to be done now not tomorrow. The only problem I see is the people of Vermont don't like to much change at once. Some of the things that most likely will have to happen are cuts to state funded programs more development to relieve some of the tax burden, but we then still have to try and attract companies out from the south where taxes are much cheaper. I love this state and I'm happy to have my family raised here, but I feel like many of the younger people from this state that I'm being forced out in several ways.
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:42 PM
 
6,764 posts, read 19,720,756 times
Reputation: 4688
I tell you one good thing about being one of those 600,000 people. You can get through to your utilities or whatever company very quickly. I have not had to wait HOURS on the phone to call the electric company, for example. Within a few minutes I can reach a live person (who speaks English!!). Wow.

Try that when you call Con Ed or LIPA or whoever your city has for power.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,898,152 times
Reputation: 450
I'll tell you another good thing. You are less likely to be a crime victim.

This is on my mind tonight, and I guess I am venting. I came home and learned there had been a gunpoint robbery on the next block. The police were out. The helicopters were out. I walked to the corner. There were some people gathered there.

I guess I should be thankful that this kind of thing attracts attention in my neighborhood. In some neighborhoods in NYC, it's just par for the course.

You know what I was thinking, and even said aloud, when I learned what had happened? "Time to move to Vermont".

You know what is holding me back? I mean in practical terms, not just psychological terms? The economic situation there. High living costs, low income. And all the other depressing stuff described on this thread.
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