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Old 12-27-2012, 08:21 PM
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,065,324 times
Reputation: 925


Originally Posted by zhugeliang1 View Post

Same here for Texas, same situation. That is why I vacation in Vermont every year.
Chain stores will be everywhere within a decade. We have our fair share in Vermont as well and the numbers probably almost double every year. Williston is a chain store/big box store paradise and it's spreading. Rutland, Barre, etc are not much different. I personally think it's a combination of people wanting an affordable price on goods and another part of it is the states demographics. Over 50% of the states population is made up of transplants. Many, not all want a little bit of what they had at home. When a company does research, the demand is there. Granted the number of stores will never equal what Florida or Texas has, the population is small and has been shrinking. I'm not sure why people hate chain stores so much. If you don't like them, don't shop there. There are towns fighting to get Walmart, Dollar General, etc. I rarely shop in those stores, but who am I to say we shouldn't have them. It's free enterprise.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:46 PM
1 posts, read 2,774 times
Reputation: 19
Hi, I hope this helps some. I moved to VT from Tampa, FL, back in 1999. In the 13 years or so I have been here, I have seen the landscape of VT change dramatically. New Jersey is moving in, Vermonters are moving out. Property taxes get higher every year, yet jobs are scarce and good paying jobs almost none. You mention looking for a place close to Burlington: expect to pay! I also originally moved here to get away from people. Since then, it seems people found VT on the map! More and more people are moving in, more chain stores are being built, housing pop up everywhere (there was actually a shortage when I moved, now it is ridiculous). I also moved here for what VT was, but many move here and want to change VT for what they left behind elsewhere. VT is also known as a welfare state, so you can make your own conclusions, but they do take the rejects from NJ, NY and MA.

On the job front, my work is not VT bound, so I am OK, but my partner has been looking for a job in VT for SIX YEARS (he is in NYC) and he would have to take close to a 50% pay cut to move here. Many of the people I know in VT work two jobs just to stay afloat. Vermont is anti-business, has a lot of lobbies and makes it tough on anyone with talent to actually stay. At the same time, Vermont complains that talent leaves the state. I am not kidding, a job that in New York you get paid $160,000 for, Vermont pays $80,000, if that much. Yet cost of living in VT is comparable to NY. In fact I have seen some prices higher here than in NYC!

Crime has also risen since I lived here. Vermont is stuck between NY, NJ and Canada and is the drug run for every dealer between point A and point B. Drug issues in VT are pretty bad, especially in places like Rutland and Burlington. We have police officer friends and we hear horror stories. I left Tampa never wanting to return (and I still do not), but I have slowly seem VT change into what Tampa became. Not good.

Climate is OK. I like the cold, so that has never been an issue. Summers, however, have been getting hotter every year. Many houses do not have central air in VT as they do in FL. Last couple of summers, we hit the 'feels like 104' temperatures. As crazy as it sounds, there were times when it was hotter here than in FL! Humidity in the summer is also through the roof. We always joke that we go from humidifier to dehumidifier as the seasons change. In the winter, expect to get lows as -14, though that is not the norm. This last winter we hit that a few times.

At this point, and after all these years, I am actually considering getting out of VT because of the job market. Vt is beautiful and the born and raised Vermonter is wonderful (interestingly that most of my friends here are born and raised in VT), but this is just way too expensive to live in. I am over just surviving.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:01 PM
444 posts, read 685,156 times
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Originally Posted by Sibie View Post
More and more people are moving in, more chain stores are being built, housing pop up everywhere (there was actually a shortage when I moved, now it is ridiculous).
I think you're only describing the Burlington area. There has been almost no change in the total population of Vermont since you moved here.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:26 AM
Location: Near the Coast SWCT
69,175 posts, read 51,388,143 times
Reputation: 11420
Originally Posted by Sibie View Post
but they do take the rejects from NJ, NY and MA.
lol. Hey, glad you left out CT in that. There is a hate relationship between NYkers and CT here. In fact I've heard a few motorists yell at people with NY plates. In just the last 5 years I've seen a surge of NY people moving in. Its sickening because they bring their mentality and attitude with them. Luckily we still have our reputation of being friendly around here but with constant buildings going up, homes being built, and land being torn apart,... congestion is getting flat out disgusting. 1 million people just in the county. I miss the trees!

I really doubt Vermont will lose its "value" but with population out of hand and insane living expenses, the masses have to go somewhere. CT has seen that, MA Im sure has and VT is nearby. I think VT is safe being that its too far north for many from the south. They complain about Climate in NJ, I doubt they'll like VT climate.

So to the OP Im impressed and praise you for the move from Florida to VT. I'd love to hear your experience one day. I too am considering it from here but dont worry...I'm not from NY/NJ/MA. lol
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Location: Central Maine
2,867 posts, read 2,985,667 times
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'New' Vermont Is Liberal, but 'Old' Vermont Is Still There - NYTimes.com
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:06 AM
Location: Albemarle, NC and Gaithersburg, MD
113 posts, read 160,101 times
Reputation: 214
I am someone who was born in Newport, VT. I moved away when I was about 2 years old and lived all over the country. My dad was in the airline business so we moved around a lot. We moved back to the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont when I was 14. I went to High School there and found many people to be very cold and reserved. My parents experienced the same thing. Even though we had lived there before and were open and friendly, we were treated as "flatlanders." Once a flatlander, always a flatlander.

I can remember my High School principal saying that Vermont's biggest export was not maple syrup, but High School graduates. I think he was right. I was one of them. After I graduated from High School I moved to Oklahoma for my post High School education. I was never so happy to leave a place, and I have lived in various places in the southern half of the US since then.

My permanent home is in North Carolina and I could not be happier. You could not pay me enough money to move back to VT. My parents felt the same. They sold their VT home and now live in Florida. They usually go visit VT every year for a few days in the summer, but they are always glad to have a home to go back to in FL.

I may have a Vermont birth certificate, but the place never felt like home to me. My experience with the NEK is that if you are not born and raised there, you will always be treated as an outsider. I think it is different with other parts of Vermont that have more transplants.

North Carolina is now my home, and I have even developed a slight southern drawl. Some people have had more positive experiences with VT, but is just not for me. It is easy to see why young people flee the state to places with nicer people, better weather, and more employment opportunities.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:37 AM
Location: Vermont
3,329 posts, read 8,783,330 times
Reputation: 1996
These posts are a perfect example as to how differently we are all wired. I find this a good thing - after all the world would be a boring place!
My experience was the complete opposite as above. I was born and raised in the NEK. Stayed in Vermont for college but left when I graduated. Lived in North Carolina for about 8 months and didn't like it at all. I found the people nice, but it seemed pretty superficial. I never made one friend there and I made sure to get myself out there! I tried. Moved to Boston where people are known to be cold and made lots of great friends. After 10 years in the city, I came back to Vermont (different area of the state) and have made friends pretty easily.
There are nice people everywhere and there are not so friendly people everywhere. I totally agree that Vermont is not for everyone but I've found that it is for me!
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:24 AM
Location: North Carolina
3,552 posts, read 6,171,389 times
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Heres just my opinion take it or leave it.. I lived in SW Fl almost my entire life , never even saw snow or the leaves change till I was 25. I didn't live in Vermont but rather a town in NH 15 mins away over the border (close enough I suppose) but went to Brattleboro plenty. Mind you I lived way down at the bottom of the state and you're looking way up north

Be in for the SHOCK of your life. We are spoiled here in Fla and don't realize it. We put on flip flops in Feb and walk out the door. Yes we have long summers but believe me your summers down here wont feel half as long as the winter up there. You have not experienced the cold you will there. So cold it hurts to breath, the open your eyes (they'll burn when the wind blows and water) joints will hurt (hips, shoulders etc) and the only way to warm up is to go in the shower cause its bone chilling.
People who grow up in that weather or experienced it to some degree most of their life have a hard time understanding how much that kind of cold is foreign to us and how HARD it is to acclimate. They tell you oh you can't stay in in the winter time you have to get out do things. Its not like summer where you cool off in the pool to get out. You will still be freezing cold while out doing things. I'm talking fingers numb shivering cold. Rubber on your boots and tires freezing just walking around outside. Tires frozen to the ground, or the key lock on your car frozen so you can't unlock your car.
I had top of the line winter gear and still couldn't be outside for long. Its grey for months and month and months.. The snow gets brown and dirty and nasty and then the leaves are dead. Its grey and brown from Oct-May and just cold. You will no longer be angry at the snowbirds when you experience that first hand. I sympathize with them now.

Cost of cold:
to heat our 1 bedroom apt at the height of gas prices cost us $400+ a month sometimes . Unlike down here, heating and electric are not lumped together. So not only did we have a $400 heating bill we had a $200 electric bill from the heat running. Mind you we kept it just warm enough at night to not have ice in the dog bowl in the am. Pipes freezing are another thing you don't have to deal with but will. No water in the house or god forbid they burst. $$$$$$$ ... Winter wardrobe, winter tires, scrapers, shovels etc etc.. All extra expenses we don't have. A white Christmas doesn't feel so great when you have to get up 2 hours early to shovel the drive way for a hour to let guests in. Plus all the times you have to do that just to get to work. It became a drag. Houses are OLD up there.. Remember old does not = charming.. old=$$$$$$$$$$$... upkeep is outragous! Drafts, insulation, rotting wood, having to repaint after the winter from the paint peeling off, damange to the roof if you don't shovel the snow off , and the gutters from ice damns.. ugh the list goes on..Forget it

Yea .... high high HIGH taxes. We looked at a condo up there to buy once it was new construction (oh and A/C is practically non existent up there even in new construction you won't find it) but taxes were $6,000 a year. That didn't include HOA fees they wanted. Some single family homes were $8,000 plus. For comparison my grandmothers condo down here is under $1000 a year in taxes new construction, upgraded.

Imo from one Floridian to another I would REALLY think this through and visit in the dead of winter. There really isn't anything to do up there compared to Florida. Its not like places are open at 9pm at night if you forget to buy milk or whatever. They're mostly mom and pop places M-F 9-5. Hell our closest mall was over an hour away (not in winter then it was 2) and we lived in a "city" in NH the 3rd largest infact. By city I mean 30,000 people. I live in a "town" in SWFL and our season population is 1 mil. We're not even a city. So think about that for comparison. Vermont towns were smaller than NH's and they're not as fond of flatlanders as they call them. My husband is a native New Englander and even he got the cold shoulder and people didn't want much to do with us cause we were "big city folk" coming in with our big city ideas or what have you. Some people hadn't even left the town we lived in in over 30 years.


Be aware you might not get them in some places. We lived downtown where we did in NH because high speed internet and cable were JUST being incorporated into the subs. We're talking 2007-2008. Also cellphone was iffy. Sometimes we got no service at all. We had to have a house phone for emergencies because of this (another added expense)

Just realize you're going from a very technology advanced state to one that has almost non in most places. Sounds charming, and it is for vacation and to visit. To live.. not so much... I lasted 11 months and go bored our of my mind and came back to Fla and it was the best decision we ever made.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:57 PM
Location: Manchester Center, VT
84 posts, read 180,381 times
Reputation: 51
I was born and raised in Ohio, lived for many years in Kentucky and now live in Vermont.

Folks in each location are as open and friendly as you are. I never had a problem meeting folks and making new friends. Vermont gets a bad rap in that regard...but residents here are more than friendly if they get it in return.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:40 AM
1,458 posts, read 1,198,134 times
Reputation: 776
A lot of it is age and perspective. After 30 years here, it's enough. I had my fun in my 20's, being a certified ski bum for awhile, lucky enough to work in the same spot now for 25 years. I gave up skiing mainly because I've lost my fascination for the cold, and the snow is very unreliable. Vermont can be very cliquey, and many social circles revolve around childhood friendships.

You have the college city of Burlington, with it's high taxes and cost of living, then a bunch of smaller suburbs. Amazingly for a state this small, the traffic can be a pain due to lack of roads. Of course, this has happened due to the 50% rise in population over the last 3 decades, with no notable increase in infrastructure. Obviously, many of the populated areas of the country are far worse.

I love to boat, do summer things like golf, etc.. Obviously, Vermont's climate does not lend itself perfectly to my style now. I've spent a great deal of time in Florida over the years, mainly East Coast. As I look towards retirement at some point, Vermont just doesn't fit in. I've outgrown Vermont, and Vermont has outgrown their previous image as well. There are many small towns and villages that you can live in Vermont, but personal lifestyle and financial condition will dictate whether you can have that kind of lifestyle.

I will head to Florida at some point, knowing full well all the good and the bad about it. Nowhere is perfect, and everyone needs to know what they can deal with and not deal with. At this point, I prefer the climate and the sun. My dream of heaven on earth would be year-round boating and golf, where good weather doesn't mean and urgency to cram four months into one good weekend. But some don't like the summer as much, and many hate the heat and humidity.

While I've shared my fair share of I hate Vermont stories, it would be easy to do that about anywhere. If you are doing what you want to be doing, that should be plenty enough. I've read many of the threads here and elsewhere about people making dramatic changes when moving. You don't have to trash one state to justify another, but it pays to listen to those already there to distill some facts and preferences. The Burlington area in general contains a huge percentage of the state's population, so naturally, you'll find more to do, and more people as well.

You'll find many Vermonters that have moved to North Carolina, searching for a place that looks like Vermont, but without the long winters. I've lived in enough places to realize you dont' sweat the people worries. There are good and bad people everywhere, just pick a nice area wherever you go, and you'll figure out the rest.

I'm not even sure the OP ever moved here, I remember a Colorado thread popped up as well.
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