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Old 12-05-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Live - VT, Work - MA
819 posts, read 1,270,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I think wind's place is on an individual or small scale. I think we need to get away from the centralization of power production. It's not simply NIMBY to oppose blasting mountains in the wildest parts of VT (as opposed to putting them in the already developed and destroyed areas like most of Chittenden County). There's nothing green or sensible about damaging critical habitat for endangered species in the NEK (i.e., the proposed Seneca wind project in Ferdinand).
Agree 110%.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,833 posts, read 29,150,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I think wind's place is on an individual or small scale. I think we need to get away from the centralization of power production. It's not simply NIMBY to oppose blasting mountains in the wildest parts of VT (as opposed to putting them in the already developed and destroyed areas like most of Chittenden County). There's nothing green or sensible about damaging critical habitat for endangered species in the NEK (i.e., the proposed Seneca wind project in Ferdinand).
I agree with much of this. A developed area makes the most sense -- I wonder if anyone has ever considered creating a combined shopping/industrial/commercial/wind farm zone? There's a huge windfarm out west on I70 and the spacing between each windmill is rather large -- large enough that big box stores, factories, etc, could be situated under them --even a train station! Why not do that? Instead of creating several eyesores, condense them.


Last edited by OhBeeHave; 12-05-2012 at 08:15 PM.. Reason: Left off image and incorrect interstate
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:44 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,396,244 times
Reputation: 4519
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
I agree with much of this. A developed area makes the most sense -- I wonder if anyone has ever considered creating a combined shopping/industrial/commercial/wind farm zone? There's a huge windfarm out west on I70 and the spacing between each windmill is rather large -- large enough that big box stores, factories, etc, could be situated under them --even a train station! Why not do that? Instead of creating several eyesores, condense them.
You can't put them to close or else you end up creating violent wind whirlpools which would tear the whole thing apart. The Newer ones have gaps between them....to prevent this. I also don't view them as Eyesores....they blend into the landscape depending on where you put them.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:31 AM
 
34,435 posts, read 41,537,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I love Vermont and I love trains, however it is so sparsely populated that the demand for passenger rail isn't really there.
This kinda points out the main problem,coupled with peoples propensity to prefer their cars.
In the trains heyday it was more convenient to go by train but now with the interstate highway system taking the car is quick,convenient and economical,much as i'd like to see a return to trains in a big way i just cant see where its cost is justified other than in an interurban commuter application.
Nice work on that original post Nexis
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:33 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,396,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
This kinda points out the main problem,coupled with peoples propensity to prefer their cars.
In the trains heyday it was more convenient to go by train but now with the interstate highway system taking the car is quick,convenient and economical,much as i'd like to see a return to trains in a big way i just cant see where its cost is justified other than in an interurban commuter application.
Nice work on that original post Nexis
Where they have put in the Rails or Transit and keep the service levels up so that they can be used as an alt to driving people go car less its happening in and around the Portland Metro and all they have is buses and Amtrak. What do you think will happen once Burlington , Manchester and Concord get more service? People will eagerly dump their cars. Theres also an obesity problem in Northern New England mostly do to the fact that you have to drive everywhere and alts to driving are scarce. What happens when gas climbs ever so hiring and it will thanks to the boom in driving in China and India....it was only a 1.20 a decade ago now its between 3-4$ , by 2020 maybe 8$? That will drive most back to transit... People have been flocking back to Transit since 2005 , Car ownership and usage is falling....

We will still need to build and restore our once larger network to head off economy crippling congestion on the Highway networks...which would happen by 2035 to just about every Interstate in the Northeast.... The Airport System is nearing capacity and can't be expanded....so we need to expand and speed up our Intercity and HSR network , the Airline industry is starting to dump its money losing routes like between Upstate NY and Northern New England to the large hub cities.... The Rail Market has gobbled up the travel share between Philly and NY , moving in on DC which should switch over to Rail by 2020 and Boston by 2030.... More and more people are moving back to Intercity Rail and buses , and away from driving and flying which is a good thing.... Now all we have to do is invest in the network... Once the Network is fully up and running which will be sometime in my lifetime , I do see myself living to the mid 2070s or my mid 80s...this region will be unified and peoples lives will be made easier...and cheaper and less stressful.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:43 AM
 
34,435 posts, read 41,537,489 times
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Another inconvenience of modern N'American rail transportation is the lack of public transit once you arrive at your destination which wont be relevant if you are going to urban Mtl,Bos or NYC but what do you do when you get off the train in Burlington and you need to make your way to Alburg or Swanton
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:56 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,396,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Another inconvenience of modern N'American rail transportation is the lack of public transit once you arrive at your destination which wont be relevant if you are going to urban Mtl,Bos or NYC but what do you do when you get off the train in Burlington and you need to make your way to Alburg or Swanton
A bus , like they do the Portland Region or rent a car...or have someone pick you up which is common outside the Transit hubs of the large Northeast cities... Its not a hard thing to do....nor is it going to kill you , you drive to the Airport you can drive to a train station. These lines will service the Large towns , which where the ridership is , thats not say everyone else is cut off you run connecting bus services to the smaller towns to the larger towns with a station you can see this in Maine or the Lower Hudson Valley and these are popular services used by locals and tourists.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Live - VT, Work - MA
819 posts, read 1,270,970 times
Reputation: 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Where they have put in the Rails or Transit and keep the service levels up so that they can be used as an alt to driving people go car less its happening in and around the Portland Metro and all they have is buses and Amtrak. What do you think will happen once Burlington , Manchester and Concord get more service? People will eagerly dump their cars. Theres also an obesity problem in Northern New England mostly do to the fact that you have to drive everywhere and alts to driving are scarce. What happens when gas climbs ever so hiring and it will thanks to the boom in driving in China and India....it was only a 1.20 a decade ago now its between 3-4$ , by 2020 maybe 8$? That will drive most back to transit... People have been flocking back to Transit since 2005 , Car ownership and usage is falling....

We will still need to build and restore our once larger network to head off economy crippling congestion on the Highway networks...which would happen by 2035 to just about every Interstate in the Northeast.... The Airport System is nearing capacity and can't be expanded....so we need to expand and speed up our Intercity and HSR network , the Airline industry is starting to dump its money losing routes like between Upstate NY and Northern New England to the large hub cities.... The Rail Market has gobbled up the travel share between Philly and NY , moving in on DC which should switch over to Rail by 2020 and Boston by 2030.... More and more people are moving back to Intercity Rail and buses , and away from driving and flying which is a good thing.... Now all we have to do is invest in the network... Once the Network is fully up and running which will be sometime in my lifetime , I do see myself living to the mid 2070s or my mid 80s...this region will be unified and peoples lives will be made easier...and cheaper and less stressful.
So you are really under the impression people in Manchester, Concord, Burlington etc. will eagerly dump their cars? IMHO this is an unrealistic assumption. If all people ever want to do on a regular basis is travel up and down that line and hang out in bus terminals perhaps people would dump their cars, but these areas aren't exactly a true metro area where someone can go 8 months without ever needing to leave the city.

I believe you are heavily discounting the American paradigm of moving freely as we choose and at their will with no schedule. I found being tied to the MBTA cost structure and time schedule incredibly limiting and stressful.

If gas goes to $8, mass transit will go along with it to a certain extent. Unless all mass transit is disconnected from fossil fuels entirely (including power generation), there is a correlation between fossil fuel prices and the price of mass transit. $8 gas would drive inflation of almost everything across the board.

Automobile useage will play a large role in American lives throughout the foreseeable future. Consumption will be reduced through improved efficiency, but the idea of people dumping their automobiles in mass once a railway rolls through Northern New England is a bit of s atretch from where I'm sitting.

Interesting discussion through.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,396,244 times
Reputation: 4519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logs and Dogs View Post
So you are really under the impression people in Manchester, Concord, Burlington etc. will eagerly dump their cars? IMHO this is an unrealistic assumption. If all people ever want to do on a regular basis is travel up and down that line and hang out in bus terminals perhaps people would dump their cars, but these areas aren't exactly a true metro area where someone can go 8 months without ever needing to leave the city.

I believe you are heavily discounting the American paradigm of moving freely as we choose and at their will with no schedule. I found being tied to the MBTA cost structure and time schedule incredibly limiting and stressful.

If gas goes to $8, mass transit will go along with it to a certain extent. Unless all mass transit is disconnected from fossil fuels entirely (including power generation), there is a correlation between fossil fuel prices and the price of mass transit. $8 gas would drive inflation of almost everything across the board.

Automobile useage will play a large role in American lives throughout the foreseeable future. Consumption will be reduced through improved efficiency, but the idea of people dumping their automobiles in mass once a railway rolls through Northern New England is a bit of s atretch from where I'm sitting.

Interesting discussion through.
People in Portland have , if you make alt Transportation livable and meet the daily needs then you see people dumping or limiting cars.... Car Ownership and usage keeps dropping , transit and alt modes of transportation are rising. Generation Y is driving this and were also the Generation that is moving back into the Cities and Transit suburbs... The Northeast is different then the rest of the US , car ownership is pretty low per population and people take advantage of Transportation were available...where it goes where they need it does for the most part. Not Everybody will dump there cars but the Younger , Single and older segments might if you look at trends in Portland which is a small city or a larger city like Seattle or Boston this tends to be the case. Only time will tell but once the New Hampshire and Maine Networks are fully up and sorted out which will take 15 years , I think you will see 30-50% of people living along those corridors to either dump or limit there car usage... In Southern New England and the Knowledge Corridor that should be closer to 60%... As for what buses will run on , Natural Gas which is plentiful is already widely used and Hybrids and Electric buses are starting to take over. You only need 4 Hydro plants to power the whole NYC Metro Network....which is extensive...
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Live - VT, Work - MA
819 posts, read 1,270,970 times
Reputation: 606
Oh, well if the people of Portland did it then we should be fine.......

Those are really bold predictions. Again, time will tell.
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