[adriatic]

Actually, as an afterthought addition to my question above, about sources for the quality of Vermont schools, I did find some useful references in the document link posted by FrugalYankee -

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/jfo/Educa...%201-2-12a.pdf

That's actually a very interesting report, in particular the case studies on the most improved schools. Although it does note that many people are frustrated by the high per pupil spending rate and disappointing result that Vermont kids' test scores only rank as average when compared with the rest of the New England states. One would hope that with the crazy high property taxes and high per pupil spending, that Vermont kids would have commensurately high test scores. Perhaps if other schools emulate the identified successful strategies cited in this January 2012 report (like for Colchester High School and 4 other schools), other Vermont schools would improve significantly as well. At least then taxpayers would see a concrete return on their high property tax rates spent on schools. The report does note that the many tiny school districts is a negative factor in getting a bang for the buck on high prop. taxes, so consolidation is probably a good idea from that perspective.

Anyway, thanks FrugalYankee for posting those valuable links. It takes time to read through and digest them, but they're very helpful in getting a broader understanding of the funding system and whether it is working or not as intended in Acts 60 and 68. (I guess it's working for the intention of ironing out disparities in educational opportunity between wealthier and poorer school districts (to the cost and detriment of the wealthier districts, I suppose whose very high property tax dollars go to other districts); and is not so successful yet in bringing up the quality (concrete improved test results) of education at all schools....although the report shows in detail how five schools did things right and reaped significant improvements.

So from my personal perspective, I'm hoping their is hope for continued improvement in Vermont schools so I won't have to pay the extra money for private school, but given the steadily declining number of students (over 18% decline in past several years), it seems the state needs to seriously consider alternatives that might reduce expenses - like consolidation of small school districts.

[momnh]

And BCBS rates went up 16% at the private company I work for - it's a universal problem, not just related to our education system.

[thunderkat59]

Originally Posted by adriatic

Thunderkat59,
Per your last message, it sounds like you have a reason or objective basis to believe that Vermont schools meet high standards relative to the rest of the country. I'm a little surprised, as I've been researching Vermont educational results and schools a bit in preparation for a move to the Burlington area (Shelburne) in the summer,
Thanks very much. (if you want to send a PM -private message instead, that's fine. Maybe other people aren't so interested in this topic.)

Adriatic

My Wife worked in the Vermont school system. I'd dont want to say where in a public forum, but she is multi-degreed, MAsters, Board Cert here in KY, etc . . . In Vermont she worked extensively with problem kids, the courts, etc. My opinion is strictly anecdotal. She has worked in four states and Vermont was one of the better ones. Her last VT principal was not a dynamic leader, but the people she worked with in her schools and other schools were very good, conciencous people.
All school systems have problems. Vermont has many, but they seem to be graduating kids who are getting accepted into good colleges. Now, if they could only get them to come back when they are finished their education
Ironically, the KY district she is on right now is by far and away the best system she's ever been involved with. So much for the barefoot, uneducated hillbilly stereotypes.

[Chadd1014]

Originally Posted by momnh

And BCBS rates went up 16% at the private company I work for - it's a universal problem, not just related to our education system.

The difference is in VT the teachers at the schools won't/don't absorb this as you do in your private company It will be passed on to the taxpayers,It never ends!!

[LisaMc46]

Originally Posted by momnh

And BCBS rates went up 16% at the private company I work for - it's a universal problem, not just related to our education system.

Exactly. The rate my employer pays went up 14%. Also, our town is warning that its insurance rates for municipal workers will go up 15%, which, when added to the teachers' increase, is going to cause property taxes to rise substantially.

[FrugalYankee]

Originally Posted by thunderkat59

So again, Vermont should use systems that are a failure as a model? What is your job, would you be happy to be fired to save someone money?

If Vermont has anything going for them at all, it is education. Why would you want to Mississippitize one of the only things that is working?

Why is there more outrage over funding something useful and important like education rather than a state sponsored racketeering scam like auto inspection?

My job? I own and run my own business. I have to earn every penny I make as opposed to simply demanding it. I find the question about whether someone would be happy to be fired speaks volumes. Since when are we obligated to keep our employees happy?

It is a universal problem, but the attitude of our state employees is that they deserve to be immune to the economic realities that the rest of us have to face head-on.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by Chadd1014

The difference is in VT the teachers at the schools won't/don't absorb this as you do in your private company It will be passed on to the taxpayers,It never ends!!

Exactly!

VT is on its way to Long Island $ized $chool taxes. Imagine paying $7K a year for school taxes and of that, 86% is for salaries and benefits.

[GregW]

All of you disgruntled Vermont Taxpayers could move across the river to New Hampshire and see how a truly dysfunctional system works. Some towns have the money to spend on great schools but the nearly broke towns in the North Country are strapped for money and the results show it.

[bobd04]

When we used to complain that it was too cold at Grandma's house she'd tell us to go stand outside for a while and we'd feel much warmer when we came back in.

Anyone complaining about Vermont property taxes needs to go to New Jersey for a while.

[FrugalYankee]

GregW I live in NH but grew up in VT and have a business and property there. As my tagline says, I cross the river twice a day.

On a single family home in NH assessed at close to $200k on 15 acres we pay approx $5k / yr in property taxes. No town water or sewer, dirt road, the nearest sidewalk is 2.5 miles away.

On a single family home in VT assessed at approx $150K on less than 1/4 acre I pay $3800 / yr in property taxes. Town water and sewer, sidewalks, next foor to apartment buildings own by a slumlord.

As far as other services go like police, fire and library they are all about the same.

The dysfunctional part of VT is that almost no one is obligated to actually pay their property taxes as you are considered needy if you make less than $90 k (it creeps up to $97k in some cases). So we have people voting for all kinds of services that they don't even have to pay for. VT has figured out how to do representation without taxation.