Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
At the risk of this going off topic...It's really not about someone being from a certain state...it's the attitude. 'Second houser owners' buy up the property here and drive up prices for those of us who live here full time.
It's the same for rich NYers who go out to Long Island and build up McMansions or homes out "east" just for the summer.
Tourists are great for the economy but need to respect the rules of the road and not act like this is their personal playground because they can afford second homes. Also, ask NICELY for directions, not turn in my drive and bark out "Where is so and so?" without even a "Hello" or "Can you help me find..." (And sometimes I don't know...I'm new here too...)
As far as (someone else asked) why people would drive up 3 hours to see leaves, I don't know. Where I lived in NY we had four seasons and saw plenty of leaves changing. I would not (personally) drive 5 hours or more to see some maple leaves change but to each his own.
It's a supply and demand thing. If the homes are available and the local people aren't buying them, the next guy who comes in with money will. If you have two interested people, the homeowner is going to accept the highest offer. Is it the highest bidder's fault if the Vermont homeowner sells to him? If the economy is fair to middlin and workers are being paid min wage, or are in retail they aren't going to be making the salaries to afford a home.
Yes, we 2nd homeowners are peppered throughout the state, we aren't limited to one region. But many are in the ski areas and yes, I've seen the ski property prices drive up local RE values. When that resident VTer sells his Ludlow home near the shuttle route, s/he's going to be asking top dollar and get it -- let's not kid ourselves. You can blame 2nd homeowners for driving up the costs of the homes, but the bottomline is that someone has to sell that home. The seller is ultimately responsible for setting the cost.
Second homeowners are paying more in taxes than VT residents -- did you know that? And for that privilege, we do not have the right to vote on school budgets and town budgets. Taxation without representation, anyone?
My children are not utilizing the schools, so all school tax money benefits VT children directly. I don't mind, really, but I wish I had a little say.
Going back to the east end of LI. Properties were really cheap out there not too long ago. Then people started heading there and land owners, home owners started to ask more and more for their houses and land. Same in Vermont. This will end when as the economy keeps floundering and fewer people purchase 2nd homes. Housing prices will keep dropping and things will return to a somewhat more affordable range.
As for tourists in VT, UGH. I see so many of the rude types who saunter in and expect the state to be backwards, inbred and beneath them. The sense of entitlement and lack of manners is horrific. You're right -- manners, asking nicely makes a difference. Civility doesn't take much.
Seeing as I live part time in VT, I have made a point of learning the ways of my area and it has made all the difference. The hardware store owner knows my family by name, the gals at Jiffy Mart ask how my drive up was when they see me bleary-eyed on a Friday night as I buy milk for Sat morn's coffee. The shop owners at the Green always have a smile for me and I for them, and are always willing to offer help.
Second homeowners are paying more in taxes than VT residents -- did you know that? And for that privilege, we do not have the right to vote on school budgets and town budgets. Taxation without representation, anyone?
My children are not utilizing the schools, so all school tax money benefits VT children directly. I don't mind, really, but I wish I had a little say.
Your a property owner not a legal resident, your a legal resident where your primary resident is. You can't have it both ways. I have a place in Maine but in no way do I feel like I should have the same voting rights as the folks who live there everyday, who's kids attend the schools, who work there. Taxation without representation? I don't think so.
We are all tourists at one time or another. In Vermont the tourist business is a big part of out economy, never understood the snobby attitudes we Vermonters sometimes have. On one hand they are made fun of while at the same time we happidly take their money.
On the other hand tourists do and say perplexing things. Years ago someone suggested a new Vermont motto pointed towards the fall foliage visitor......
" enjoy the reds and yellows but please leave us the green".
Yes, the state needs tourists, part-timers, whoever. It's a free country and welcome.
But sometimes it gets a bit annoying. I don't mind helping out people, talking to them. I'd say 90% of them are very nice & I like hearing the different accents.
Sometimes we forget how impatient we are (when lost). I know I have been there many times myself. It's a reminder (to me) to be a bit more polite when asking 'Can you tell me where so and so is?'
Yes, Bee, you are right. Some people assume you live in a rural area and must be some yokel who can't rub two sticks together. Funny, I have found most people to be quite educated here. Again, I live in a 'retirement' town. People have made their money and can spend it playing golf or whatever.
Stereotypes are bad! I had to endure a lot of them as I moved (as a NYer, then in England as an American). I guess we all have them in our head. It's hard to fight them.
Unfortunately, it's a double edged sword. The state needs the money from tourists and second home owners, but the high real estate prices in the tourist areas are driving out locals. The revised property tax law that went into effect a few years ago caused a lot of locals in the Stowe area to sell their homes - after the property assessments, the value of people's homes skyrocketed and they could not afford the higher taxes. This is a direct result of second homeowners - the higher property values caused taxes to go up (this is not the ONLY reason, of course, but a major one). There were people who had lived in the same home for generations and were forced to sell - their salaries were not going up and they could no longer afford to live there.
As an out of state owner, I feel bad for the locals - especially considering that if I become a local, the same thing can happen to me...but at the same time, the tourist industry drives so much of the economy that I don't think there is a simple answer. Though it would be great if people didn't feel the need to build huge homes that cost millions of dollars, but that's not happening anytime soon.
I've come across many tourists and most of them are very friendly and appreciative of Vermont. Occasional jerks? Of course. But we have jerks here too.
As for out of staters, I see more respect for Verrmont than some of the locals. Out of staters moved here because it's beautiful and they want to keep it that way. I hear a lot of life-long vermonters complain that there aren't walmarts or home depots where they live.
Out of staters moved here because it's beautiful and they want to keep it that way. I hear a lot of life-long vermonters complain that there aren't walmarts or home depots where they live.
Playing devils advocate here....on the flip side - with the folks moving here from out of state brings population change - Vermont has grown quite a bit (for VT LOL) over the past few decades. This population change and the change in demographics is appealing to retailers such as Home Repot, etc. That is why recently we've seen a wave of national chains making plans to build in our smaller communities (Middlebury for example is getting a Staples and a Starbucks). So...I guess what I am trying to say is that people moving here from elsewhere are a huge reason why we are seeing development pressure, especially from the big box sector - you can't shut the door behind you
I for one can't wait for Target to finally get here! I welcome development and change, as long as it's done with respect to our environment - natural and cultural.
When you live here 365 days a year it is nice to have shopping choices locally (especially in the winter) which also supports the local economy by offering employment as well as generating sales tax revenue. Several of my coworkers and myself included have spent a day or more going out of state to be able to buy items needed for home projects. Internet sales also accounts for quite a bit of shopping and often you can buy items with free shipping. I have on several occasions gone this route after trying to buy certain items locally to no avail, items as basic as a lower temperature dehumidifier for the cellar.
Well, we border people are lucky. We can hop over to NH (or other cases NY or MA) to shop if we want. We're sort of forced to in my area as we don't have a supermarket apart from some 'hole in the wall' in WRJ. I do like the Co-op but it's pricey.
Back on topic, the leaves are looking so pretty. Tonight we were down by a local pond and it was so lovely. Of course I forgot the camera at home.
Off-topic for one more quickly - be careful as I've heard that the state targets a lot of the folks who live on the border for avoiding the sales tax by going into NH...you are technically supposed to declare sales tax come return time (for internet orders as well) and a lot of states have begun cracking down. I remember seeing somewhere (here maybe??) that VT does that for a lot of folks living near NH...
Off-topic for one more quickly - be careful as I've heard that the state targets a lot of the folks who live on the border for avoiding the sales tax by going into NH...you are technically supposed to declare sales tax come return time (for internet orders as well) and a lot of states have begun cracking down. I remember seeing somewhere (here maybe??) that VT does that for a lot of folks living near NH...
Yes they do check on sales records. I don't quite know to what extent and how they can compell an out of state business to divulge sales information, but if you are going over to NH to make a purchase just use cash if you can.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
