[arel]

Scary stuff. New York does get cold, very cold, in the winter. Same for Rhode Island, where I once lived. The talk about Vermont winters in sobering. A friend who lives in Brattleboro says the winters are not so bad, though. But I have read that Brattleboro winters are supposed to be warmer than other Vermont winters.

I probably need to visit in the winter and see for myself. Years ago, I made a December visit to southern Maine (across the river from Portsmouth NH) and found the place extremely cold. But I may not have been properly dressed for the weather.

I'm wondering: How daunted should I be by Vermont winters?

The other thing that concerns me is the difficulty flying. Right now I live approximately 30 minutes from Kennedy Airport. This is very convenient if I have to go to either Kennedy or LaGuardia airports, but I don't fly very often. So, right now that's not a big deal. But I may travel more in the future, and I know I will miss proximity to a major airport.

Ultimately, no place is perfect, moving involves risk and change always involves some loss. I guess there is almost always a trade-off.

[ontheroad]

Jason great post. Wonder how you'd compare your thoughts on VT with Warwick (a town I am somewhat familiar with and thought charming).

Arel, I don't think you can compare, fairly, the cold of NYC to the cold of New England. One of the things, especially in the City, is no matter how much snow it gets, and certainly there have been some "mean" winters, generally you get on a subway and often the snow has melted from the under-street heating systems, most particularly in Manhattan. And although I had my car stuck between one mound or another pile of dirty white, I had alternate transportation.

In New England, it is generally a car and nothing but, with just few exceptions. Several nights and mornings, too, I had to spend ages digging out my car, and one winter I remember being stranded, almost weekly in Boston ('93, I think) we got hit so hard and I couldn't commute.

However, I felt the fresh, cold, biting air and loved it

[Jason_Els]

Thanks for the kind comments. If you want to see what I think of Warwick these days, not to mention other comments on Vermont, then do a search of my posts. I may sound very harsh about Warwick but I've seen it change from its own living, if sleepy, community with people who lived and worked here, to a bedroom exurb full of yuppies who are only interested in what the schools can do for their kids and how much they can spend on making their McMansion look more impressive than the next guy's. A lot of the soul has gone out of the town since many of the people I grew-up with, families here for generations, since its founding, have left because they simply couldn't afford to live here. The taxes and property values are insane.

Guess why I'm here on this forum? I want to leave too though it pains me to leave a place my family has so much connection to.

[Jason_Els]

Winters are supposedly milder in Brattleboro than in most other areas of the state, but I have been warned that they are cold and long. I wonder how much worse they are than NYC winters.

That figure of New York being two USDA zones warmer was based on Brattleboro, not the rest of Vermont which is largely colder still. That means expect Brattleboro to be, on average, 10 degrees colder than New York.

[ontheroad]

Unfortunately, Jason, your experience and description of Warwick can be said for many cities and towns throughout the States. I am in NM, Taos, and about 50% of the local conversation is about how much it has changed, and not for the better. Pity!

Living in the US has nearly become intolerable for the middle and working class. I have been checking back in the New England area, and since I left in very late '96, ten years, it seems the cost of living has risen, in housing, nearly 40-60%.

I wish us all good luck in whatever decisions we take.

Originally Posted by Jason_Els

Thanks for the kind comments. If you want to see what I think of Warwick these days, not to mention other comments on Vermont, then do a search of my posts. I may sound very harsh about Warwick but I've seen it change from its own living, if sleepy, community with people who lived and worked here, to a bedroom exurb full of yuppies who are only interested in what the schools can do for their kids and how much they can spend on making their McMansion look more impressive than the next guy's. A lot of the soul has gone out of the town since many of the people I grew-up with, families here for generations, since its founding, have left because they simply couldn't afford to live here. The taxes and property values are insane.

Guess why I'm here on this forum? I want to leave too though it pains me to leave a place my family has so much connection to.

[tkln]

It's funny because I think NY hardly ever gets 'really' cold anymore! And we hardly get as much snow as we used to when I was a kid (and I'm 34!). That's what I love about VT - the COLD! As a matter of fact, when I'm in NY and it's cold, I'm all bundled up...in Vermont, I'm walking around in a t-shirt to run out to the car or what not. I don't know why that is, but it's awesome. Two years ago we were up there for New Year's the the temp was 4 degrees. Everyone was out skiing, walking, shopping. Love it!

[vter]

Jason, to an extent, I see what has happened in Warwick happen here in Vermont, especially in the Burlington area. My mom was just telling me that her friend's daughter just moved to Charlotte and she flies to work in NYC 2x a week.

[Jason_Els]

Yeah, I think it's happening out of desperation. As the ability for the average American to better him/herself diminishes, so the desire to be able to cope with cost of inflation by moving somewhere cheaper increases. Americans have never been big on staying in one place but I see so many posts, speak to so many people who have a tinge of desperation in their voices. Tax hikes, housing, health care, and secure jobs are the reasons.

I may get a lot of flack but America is slipping. Our class mobility is now on par with Britain, the lowest of the top eight industrialized countries, are economic freedom (meaning ability to conduct business without having government fees and regulations prevent you from starting a business) has slipped just behind Spain to twelfth, and the cost of education has caused the middle class and poor in the US to fall out of the top ten countries in educational opportunity. Further, the gulf between rich and poor is widening faster than in any other highly industrialized country. Without manufacturing, and declining service industry jobs, people without better college educations or higher degrees won't be able to earn enough. Already the American savings rate is negative: we spend more than we earn.

If we don't fix this we're screwed.

[chaz longue]

Originally Posted by Jason_Els

That figure of New York being two USDA zones warmer was based on Brattleboro, not the rest of Vermont which is largely colder still. That means expect Brattleboro to be, on average, 10 degrees colder than New York.

...but don't forget The Lake Effect, which is significant. The old timers refer to the climate around Burlington as The Banana Belt.

[chaz longue]

Originally Posted by vter

Sushi? Can't say it's a favorite of most Vermonters, which is why you don't see much of it around! A former co-worker used to go to Koto in South Burlington for his sushi fix. From what I could gather, he was a picky eater, so if he went there, it must be OK.
Bagels...not a huge bagel fan. You can get Montreal Style bagels and Myers in Burlington. Other than that, not sure where you can get them besides Brueggers (ok in my book, but like I said, not a big fan in general) or Dunkin Donuts (eeewww). There are a couple mom & pop bagel places around too...Trono's in South Burlington to name one.
Maybe Chaz-Lounge knows of some NY style bagel places around?!

I'm reluctant to enter the bagel fray, except to say that there are several perfectly good bagel bakeries in Burlington and many in surrounding towns and suburbs. I'll leave it to others to decide how authentic they are, but I enjoy them regularly.

Sushi on the other hand is something I feel somewhat strongly about. Sakura is well worth a trip, as is KOTO (which is really more of a teppa place, a cuisine I'm told was invented in Toronto and quickly embraced as "authentic" the world over it seems). But even more interesting to me than the fact that I can go to an expensive sushi restaurant, is the fact that Sushi is now almost ubiquitous in Chittenden County. One of the Supermarkets I frequent offers many varieties of Sushi and Sashimi to go, rather elegantly packaged, and quite fresh. It's a bargain too. But so does the city owned market/food co-op. And so does the sandwich and gourmet food place I walk to for coffee and lunch while my tires are being rotated, and so does the health food store in the suburbs out by the large book store I go browse in when I'm over in that neck of the woods...

Sushi just isn't exotic here, even though there are still people who think "sushi" is merely a synonym for "raw fish".