[Iloveteaandscones]

What are you looking for in Vermont, Arel? I think that is an important question to consider. If you are used to big-city conveniences such as take-out food, public transport, something to do every night, something to do after 10 pm and anonymity, you are going to miss them all very much in Vermont because you won't really find them. I grew up in central Vermont. Now I live in Berlin (no, not home of the Berlin Mall next to Barre but in Germany) and as much as I long for Vermont, coming home for a month in summer was quite a shock. It made me realize that I had become used to city conveniences. I hated being dependent on a car. I hated not being to have anything to do at night. I hated feeling like a criminal for smoking a cigarette. I missed being spoiled for choice when I wanted to go out to eat or have a coffee. I was freaked out for about a week and then I remembered I was home. I really had to switch back to slow-paced, super-friendly, laid-back, quiet life in Vermont. After that it was fine. And I realised how many museums and things to do there were (all right, you aren't going to see anything equivalent to the MoMA or Met, but it's VERMONT. Go to a farm museum. Go to the open-air museum in Shelburne. Go visit the Ben and Jerry's factory. Go to a small gallery opening and actually TALK to people instead of ignoring and being ignored like you would in a city.) There are fewer options but that doesn't mean there aren't any good options. I would still recommend Burlington (becaue of the lake, poximity to Montreal, university, Sugarbush/Stowe nearby) but the truth is that I found plenty to do in my tiny town with fewer than 5,000 people and I'm sure there is plenty to do in Brattleboro. And there are so many things that you can't do in a city, mostly having to do with being outdoors. Or living in a house (my god, I would love to live in an actual house again). Forget the stuff about not being able to find good bagels. There will be plenty of other things to eat. Really! It isn't the end of the world. I have never lived in New York, but I have lived in Boston and Mexico City and travelled all over Europe so I am a bit skeptical of New York being the only place where one can eat certain foods. (Or is that just my bias against flatlanders?!) You can get great food in Vermont. You just aren't going to have as many options as in New York. But you will find your own favorite places in Brattleboro or wherever, too. Get excited about apple-cider doughnuts or some of the crunchy natural foods markets or buying local beef or milk and joining a garden co-op in the summer. I think a lot of homesickness has to do with your attitude. If you allow yourself (or force yourself) to get exicted about the new you won't dwell on the old so much.
That said, the thing that I don't miss about Vermont the most is being dependent on a car that you will have to dig out of a foot of snow in the dark in sub-zero temperatures in order to go to work, etc. Or if you aren't feeling well you can't just jump on the subway and go somewhere. You have to drive, possibly in inclement weather. Most of the time I can't be bothered. I can't really tell how much of a big deal this is for someone that didn't grow up doing it, but I can't see any postive aspect to this experience. I guess it toughens you up?
And yes, the winter is long and gray and cold. I have to admit, I don't miss it that much and laugh when people complain about Berlin's almost snowless winters. The temperature doesn't go much below freezing! But I would like to go skiing or walking in the woods or just listen to the snow falling. I miss coming in out of the cold and warming up next to a wood stove. Basically, if you have the right clothes and boots and get snow tires then it is fine. I don't know if you are a high-heels kind of girl or wear skirts a lot, but if you are that is something you might miss in the winter! Hiking boots and goretex are where it's at. And the tried and true wool plaid jacket. And gloves, hat, scarf, thinsulate, long underwear. As the Germans here say, "there is no such thing as bad weather. Just badly dressed people." So you might miss being fashionable. Finally, to cope with winter, it also helps if you have something to enjoy, such as snowshoeing/skiing/etc. And if you are really down, a trip to the tanning salon is a quick and easy way to cheer your body up with some fake sun. Try it! It works!

[arel]

Great post.

I am not a high-heels and skirts person. My favorite store, actually, is LLBean. Although I am not dowdy, I am very far from being a clothes horse. My favorite clothes would be perfectly in place in Vermont. I love good quality, functional clothing for winter.

I would miss, however, the need to depend on a car no matter what. I have a car, and prefer using it to using public transportation, but if I don't feel well, or if I am tired, or if I know there will be no or extremely difficult parking (like after a snow storm, or if I am going to midtown Manhattan), or if I have to leave my car at the repair shop, I do like the option of the subway. When I worked in Staten Island and the commute would have been about 3 hours without a car, I chose to rent a car if my car was in the repair shop. I guess I would have to do that in Vermont. What do people do if they have no car?

In the winter, though, the subways are very well-heated, and unless I take off my heavy outerwear, I bake in there. And subways are getting increasingly crowded. Often there are no seats even in non-rush hours. Subways are more uncomfortable than they used to be. It's much harder to find a seat. And even if you do, the seats are such that your space is invaded by the person in the adjacent seat. It is almost impossible to relax on the subway anymore, unless the car is sparsely populated. And, rarely, you can get an empty car, but I do not relax if I am the only person in the car.

I also like other urban amenities here, like take-out food, food delivery and the business competition that allows me to abandon businesses that give me poor service. When lived in a small town in Rhode Island, I had poor service with a propane company and only one other company to defect to. I really had no leverage after I was asked to wait all day for a delivery and the delivery never came (because, I was told, when I called, they didn't get to it).

No, I am not obsessed with bagels and I do like what I can get to eat in Vermont. By the way, we do have local farmers markets in NY, in concrete-covered school yards and around Union Square Park. We can get Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream.

I live in a house. I have lived in an apartment and I greatly prefer living in a house (more independence and freedom, plus equity to draw on if necessary) but living in a house has its drawbacks. It can be a money pit. Property taxes are high, but not as high here as in many other places, even though they have pretty much doubled since I got the house. I'm thinking of ditching the house for a condo, to avoid maintenance hassles, as long as I do not have to deal with restrictions on my freedom. If I move to Vermont, that is something I am considering. I know, though, that it is best to rent for your first year in a new place, so you can easily leave if you don't want to stay.

People are not unfriendly here, but they do seem impersonal and guarded. I noticed the friendliness of people in Brattleboro. New York can be quite lonely for some people, in spite of the large number of people and the lots of things to do. You can go to an event, even an event at a park, and no one talks to you beyond pleasantries.

One thing that galls me here is the new rule that adults cannot enter playgrounds unless they have a child with them. Of course, this is to protect children from predators. But I learned this rule when I wanted to sit down on a bench and/or go on a the swings and/or sliding pond on a break from work. So I am excluded from using facilities I have always enjoyed, that my taxes are paying for. If I brought a child with me, I would have to keep my attention on the child and would not be fully able to relax.

Someone posted about a large GSBT community in Brattleboro and the presence of a gay bar. I noticed several people whose appearance suggested strongly that they were gay and they (or at least one I remember distinctly) seemed very outgoing and comfortable. That suggested to me that Brattleboro is a comfortable, tolerant town where people have the freedom to be themselves. The town is known for its liberalism. I enjoy the liberal environment, and if I ever need a break from it, there is a bridge right downtown that goes to New Hampshire.

Is there a lot of SAD (seasonal affective disorder) in Vermont? That is when someone becomes depressed because there is not enough natural light during the day. It is believed to be a physiological condition, not a psychological response to winter. It is often treated with full-spectrum light from a special light box that you can buy. You sit under it for about an hour (more or less) in the morning or so. I would recommend using a light box rather than a tanning salon. There have been lots of warnings about tanning salons.

[Mustard]

Arel,

Do you work for the Brattleboro Chamber of Commerce?

[arel]

No, I don't. Why do you ask?

[Woof]

The best bagels are from Montreal, not NYC.

[arel]

I suppose that would be a good reason to live in Burlington.

[Woof]

Arel, I have very nice memories from childhood of car trips going from Pittsfield MA up through southern Vt .... I don't think we ever went through Brattleboro, but only small towns .... I remember so vividly that the best part of the trip for a young child was a small general store which had a large selection of maple candy.

Later I would come to appreciate the trip for the autumn leaves, the clean snow and the little villages that always, in my memory at least, seemed to have a beautiful small white steepled church or two. My older brother would often go all the way up there to fill up his water jugs from a spring that had the sweetest water I've ever tasted..... he didn't trust Pittsfield tapwater .... and he would buy the outrageously expensive pure maple syrup, often muttering about the evils of white sugar, and the almost magical health benefits of the syrup.

SAD ..... simply get outside for a half hour in the morning to prevent this for the remainder of the day. This works even on overcast days. Drink a large cup of hot coffee, that will energize you enough to get out.

I suppose Vermont wouldn't live up to my memories, but yes I'd like to live there, if I could afford to relocate.

[square peg]

And just a friendly reminder about the price of maple syrup here folks. Currently a gallon can be had for about $35 and should last an average family of four a year or two.

[Nomoresubways]

Arel, if you live near downtown Brattleboro, the town bus is a decent option as a backup to your own car. I personally really enjoyed having my own car up there because there are so many places you can just drive around, enjoy the scenery and "check things out". I could probably tell you dozens of cool places to cruise around and check out.

As far as SAD, I don't think that was really an issue. Most people I knew (and still know) up there were upbeat most of the time, unless something terrible happened of course. There is an abundance of survivalism and genuine contentness that I don't see as much of in NYC.

I like the convenience of the subway myself, I have to admit. But, like you, I've noticed that it's getting less and less of a convenience and more uncomfortable, especially around the major commuting times.

And yes, there are plenty of good places to eat in Vermont. You won't miss a beat, bagels are by no means the only food worth eating. If the Common Ground is still around, on Elliot Street by Harmony parking lot, check it out. That and the Moles Eye.

[arel]

I ate at the Mole's Eye last time I was in Brattleboro.

I like Maple Syrup, but, sadly (or maybe not sadly), I never developed a taste for maple candy. Too rich. A stomach ache waiting to happen.

I want to visit Brattleboro again in January, hopefully on Gallery Walk weekend.

By the way, a big thank you to everyone who has been so helpful to me on this forum! Your feedback and input have been invaluable.