[arel]

I love NYC, too, but I don't bother too much with nightlife. Sometimes I work at night, or may have commitments here in Brooklyn, but mostly, if I have nothing scheduled, I rest at home in the evening. I have dinner, read, do things in the house, watch TV. To get to anything in Manhattan, or even in downtown Brooklyn, it is approximately an hour there and another hour back. If I drive straight from work, it is a shorter time there, but still an hour back. If there is a lot of traffic, as on a Sunday, it can be up to two hours to get home. I have to go to Manhattan this afternoon and I am probably going to take the subway.

Yes, there is a lot to do in New York. The choices are overwhelming. Pages and pages of listings for concerts, shows, exhibits, meetings, etc. There is stuff to in Manhattan and also in your local neighborhood. The world-class arts are here, but they are usually very expensive. There is plenty to do, however, that is low-cost or even free.

But people are busy, and in the evening they are tired. People work crazy hours here and want to have quiet time with family and friends. Or quiet time alone.

There is some visual interest, even beauty, in the local architecture and Central Park is a gem. I don't like Prospect Park as much, even though the designer, who also designed Central Park, considered Prospect Park his masterpiece. There are beaches in all the boroughs except Manhattan. There are beaches that are on the open ocean and beaches that are in inlets with easier surf. Out on Long Island there are nicer beaches. The Jersey shore is within driving distance, and there are mountains a few hours north of the city. People kayak on Jamaica Bay and even on the Hudson River.

But, here in New York City, there is so much congestion, so much rudeness, so much threat of danger (much more than the danger itself, I think), so much dirt and pollution, so much suspiciousness, and so much dishonesty all around. There is so much dishonesty that if you are honest it causes comments, even criticism.

In Vermont, there are no ocean beaches, but also no threats of coastal storms and storm surges. A New York tsunami is unlikely, but even if one happened, it would not touch Vermont. In Vermont, if you needed to evacuate the area, you could. You would not be dependent on bridges or tunnels, which involve bottlenecks at the best of times, and would be unusable at the worst.

And, at least in Brattleboro, there is plenty of stuff to do right downtown. No long commute, no traffic. The town is large enough to have most of the amenities of a big city (how many amenities do you need?) and small enough to have a sense of community. There is community radio, community TV, community online citizen journalism, and lots of other participatory group activities. You get some of that in NYC as well, (for example, Brooklyn Community Access Television) but people here do not seem to have the same sense of community. I could be wrong on this, but this has been my experience. People tend to be very impersonal and guarded here, although they can be superficially friendly.

By the way, I had one of the best muffins I've ever had in Brattleboro. They were from the Food Co-op. That food co-op is really wonderful. And there is a bagel place a few doors down! (Of course, the bagels are not as good as New York bagels, but they are adequate. Well, sort of.)

[sevdie]

I love New York. There is absolutely no place like it in this country. I hope you accomplished what you originally wanted in this thread and that was to find out what people missed about New York when they moved away.

[arel]

Yup, this turned out to be a very productive thread, thanks to all the participation. Thanks so much to all of you.

And I'm glad it's here to be read, reread and added to.

Moving from your hometown can be wrenching, even if you know, intellectually, that is the best move.

And then there is the issue of New York's specialness, usually described in superlatives. The biggest, the capital of the world, etc., etc..

But if I move to Brattleboro, and perhaps from there to Burlington, New York will be only a few hours away by car, train, or, from Burlington, plane. It won't be as if I'm moving to the West Coast or to another continent.

Moving is a big change. Change involves endings and beginnings, and these involve, apart from positive emotions like excitement and anticipation, feelings of grief for what is lost and fear of the unknown. You are also taking a risk. The risk can be managed by research and back-up plans, but the risk is still real.

[sevdie]

Yes it is. But you will be okay. Good luck to you!

[arel]

I appreciate your encouragement. Thank you!

[giselle]

I believe that a change of location is good and we all grow from it. Even though I understand and respect some people's need to stay in their home town, especially if they are close to their family, I am not like that. Here's to new experiences! We know we will need to make some very big adjustments, but that is life. We are already planning how we will stock up on food and sundries, since we will not be 3 minutes away from a grocery store.

[sevdie]

Isn't it exciting? I've moved around a lot and it is always a fun adventure, but I can't wait to find a place to call home so I can stay put. Hopefully I have found my spot. LOL. Good luck to you Giselle!

[giselle]

Thank you. I admit, I do have wanderlust. But, we've tried to teach our kids to enjoy new places and experiences too. Keeps life interesting....

[ofd in VT]

I grew up in MA and have lived in the north east kingdom of VT (St. Johnsbury area) for 4 years. I still am trying to ajust to this life. I love where I live and would not be able to stomach living in a city again but there are definite draw backs to living in the North Country.

This year hasn't been bad but the 2 previous years we had 2 week stretches of 30 below zero. You know its cold when the contents of your nose freeze 2 minutes out the door.

I didn't know that there was a place that didn't have a home depot within 20 min. of it until I moved here. The closest HD or Lowes was 1.5 hour ride, until HD opened in Littleton NH last year. Lowes just opened 1/4 mile away from HD last week.

Restaurants? Like Bill Clintons policy on gays in the military, Dont Ask.

When you grow up in an area and get used to certain ammenities, it is tough when you move away and cant get them.

But of course there are things here that I didn't have back in MA.

The first time I went to a super market here, the unoccupied truck parked next to me had the windows rolled down, keys in the ignition and gun in the rack. Wow!

Most of the time my doors are unlocked, house and car. If I hear a gunshot I can just about guarantee the shooter's hat is facing forward and its not a drive by.

Most of the neighbors have been very friendly. There were people that lived 3 doors down from me in MA that I did not Know.

Real Estate is Cheap in comparision. You can get a McMansion up here for what a ranch would sell for in a decent town else where.

The Kids Love it here and are already acclimated and thats what is most important.

Good Luck

[arel]

Yup, it's an adjustment.

What amenities to miss from New York? Food. Lots of New York food. Delis and restaurants that deliver. Places to eat that are open 24/7. Stores nearby. Racial and ethnic diversity. Central Park. Botanical Gardens. Brooklyn Bridge. Great museums. Lots of museums and galleries. Brooklyn Heights. Park Slope. Jamaica Bay. Hudson River. Upper West Side. Greenwich Village.

Also, crowds, danger, pollution, traffic, difficulty finding parking, security concerns, rudeness, congestion, vulnerability to coastal storms, threat of terrorism, crowded subways. Big city things. Famous city things. Coastal things.

And, for some of us, the fact that it is home. Familiar places. Familiar house.

It's amazing how you don't appreciate something until you are about to lose it or give it up. A hometown, a relationship, a sick pet.

Sometimes I have to keep reminding myself why I want to move to Vermont.

There's a part of me that never wants to leave New York City.