[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by arel

I've heard of cats that were part bobcat. That would indicate that bobcats sometimes mate with domestic cats. True? Or urban legend (make that rural legend)?

Hybrids between small wild cats and domestic cats are sadly real, but as far as I know they're not bobcat-hybrids roaming the woods. I don't believe that is going on. For one thing, the offspring of wild & domestic hybrids are often sterile or have other problems, unless they are part of some awful and careful breeding program, which brings me to my next subject.

There are domestic/wild cat hybrids perpetuated by breeders who keep (or contribute to) small wild cats held captive to make money off their genes. These breeds include Bengals (domestic cat + Asian leopard cat -- two of my cats are rescued Bengals), chausies (domestic cat + felis chaus, the small Jungle Cat), Savannahs (domestic cat + African Serval), and a few others. If you're getting excited and want a hybrid or six, PLEASE RESCUE, DON'T BUY. As with every animal of every breed, there are countless hybrid cats in rescue. Just go to Petfinder.com: Adopt a pet and help an animal shelter rescue a puppy or kitten. and search for the breed that excites you, but do your research -- these are sentient living beings with a lifetime of needs, not jungle-motif accessories for one's home. (I may be preaching to the choir here, but I simply must say this.)

One estimate of the number of homeless cats in the US is that every man, woman, and child would need to adopt NINE cats to give them all homes, so breeding cats is absolutely perverse to begin with. Combine that with trapping and keeping captive a wild animal to sell off the products of his/her genetic material, and I am ready to rant and rave. As you can see here. :-)

Back to cats outdoors safely:

Here is a discussion with photos & links of all kinds of ways to let cats enjoy the outdoors safely. Our own cats' pen and leash-walks are included.

At our next home, we plan to enclose space for the cats with the Purrfect Fence. We would get the fencing with both fence-top options, angled in and angled out. Reports are that it truly keeps cats safe from wildlife and vice versa. I guess as long as a bird of prey doesn't swoop in and take one of our cats it might work well.

Sammy the Serpent on leash:


Boyz in the Pen; this pen has been enlarged and is now about 300 sq ft:

[arel]

I agree with you about the breeding issues.

BTW, birds of prey have been known to take cats, so I think a safe pen would have an eagle-proof screen on top.

My cats are all indoor cats, but if I could find a way to keep them safe outdoors, I would. Some of the houses I've been looking at have screened porches, but you need pet mesh screens to keep the cats in, and presumably the fisher cats and coyotes out. I have pet mesh screens in my front wondow here, where the cats like to sit. I have absolutely no idea if they are strong enough to keep out a fisher cat or coyote. Thankfully, we have no fisher cats in Brooklyn. If there are any, they are in the Prospect Park Zoo.

In Brooklyn, dangerous wildlife is more of the human kind, and there seem to be fewer of it than before. Other than the ever-present squirrels and pigeons, what I see, sometimes, are possum and an occasional raccoon. Of course, there are mice and even rats, but I don't see them too often. An office I work in one evening a week stank for a while because, it is believed, a mouse went into the moldings by the radiator and died. Now it still stinks, but from the powder they put out to hide the dead mouse smell.

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by arel

BTW, birds of prey have been known to take cats, so I think a safe pen would have an eagle-proof screen on top.

For greatest safety measures, I think you're right about an eagle-proof "roof." Despite the risk, we think we'll go with the Purrfect Fence because of the balance of safety issues.

In Vermont, fisher cats and other mammalian predators are highly likely to take unprotected cats. Reports of this are frequent. We think that the Purrfect Fence should be sufficient protection from them.

I think that the likelihood of a bird of prey taking a cat depends on the location (How common are birds of prey? How large? How hungry?) and the size/condition of the cat. Sammy the Serpent is 4.5 years old and weighs 20 lbs -- all muscle and long limbs. He's also highly observant & intelligent and bolts at the first sign of threat. Jewel is 18 years old and weighs 7 lbs, but is unlikely to wander more than a few feet from the house, even in a penned/fenced area.

I know at least a dozen people mourning their adult cats' loss to mammalian predators. They know what took them because they found parts of their cats and the wildlife people checked it out. Whereas I know of exactly one New Englander who lost a cat to a bird of prey, and that was in Southern NH, and the cat was a small kitten. There are probably more, but it doesn't seem to happen as much here.

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by West mountain

I lost my entire flock of Chickens to a fisher this weekend. I live near the Great Sacandaga. The little bastard cut through my chicken wire ate through the door of the coop and tore the neck out of every one of my birds. I intend to trap and kill everything on 4 legs that wanders onto my property for the next year at least.

Wow, that's a mean fisher.

Trap, or get a couple of tough guard dogs.

[arel]

I recently read of someone who lost, I think, 68 turkeys to what was believed to be a single fisher cat. The owner said that was an entire year's profit gone.

What's with these fisher cats? Do they kill just for food? Or do they kill for the sake of killing? I'll be bringing 5 cats to Vermont and the thought of losing any of them to a fisher cat is, to say the least, upsetting. These cats are beloved family members.

I've been told that in downtown Brattleboro fishers are not a problem. My friend there lets her cat go in and out at will without incident. But someone I know in West Brattleboro believes she lost a cat to a fisher; a pet sitter reportedly let the cat out accidentally.

Until I started visiting Brattleboro in April, 2006, I had never even heard of fisher cats.

If you want to learn what a fisher cat looks like, go on Youtube and put "fisher cat" in the search box. There is a good video of one. You can also google "fisher cat" on the image feature. There are lots of pictures.

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by arel

What's with these fisher cats? Do they kill just for food? Or do they kill for the sake of killing?

I have heard that the increase in human development has limited wild animals' access to food and hunting grounds. Also, roaming housecats and other animals hunt some of the same prey as fisher cats. I think it's a wildlife-meets-civilization issue. And I think I will keep my own cats out of that food chain.

[arel]

Makes sense. They may be killing competitors.

[coreysmom]

Just wanted to let you folks know that the Fishercat is alive and well in West Brattleboro. I live out on 9 by the State Police Office. I went out this morning to clean the oil tank off and saw some amazing tracks in the snow. Evidently a fishercat was chasing a bunny and caught it right at the tree line. We have a healthy population of outdoor cats around here so I don't think they are preying on them. I haven't heard of anyone missing any cats either, at least not yet this year. My bigger concern is the fact that there appears to be a pair of wolf hybrids that run at night. Scared the 'you know what' out of me last month at 4 in the am when I let one of my dogs out to potty. I have a 6 ft. stockade fence so the dog was never in danger, but he started barking at the back of the fence line and when I looked that way, it was like watching something on Discovery channel. There they were, big as could be, (huge). In the treeline, never made a sound, never came to the fence, just stood and stared at me as I ran out to get the dog and ran back to the house. I got a flashlight and went to the back door and opened it a bit and shined the light out, and there they were. I could hear them walking in the snow, crunching as they went, and one of them looked around the corner of the house, right at me. Could have sworn it was a wolf except the wildlife people told me the next day that there haven't been any wolves in vt. for almost a hundred years. They said they were probably hybrids. And no, they weren't coyotes. These things stood easy thigh high at the shoulder. They were beautiful, but like any pack animal, one's bad enough, two or more is a disaster waiting to happen. If you live out this way, keep your critters in at night.

[Beenaroundabit]

Raptors - eagles, hawks, falcons, etc. *can* take small domestic animals like dogs and cats, but it's very rare. We were warned about this before moving to Alaska, but the actual event is not nearly as common (or sensational) as the story. The birds would have to be extremely hungry or starving - which means all their other prey would be non-existent or very scarce - and the circumstances would need to be just right (like maybe a chihuahua covered in gravy?) for this to occur.

Also, remember that many raptors are too small to lift even a kitten, so it'd have to be something larger like a a bald or golden eagle, maybe a larger hawk. I grew up in VT and never saw a single eagle and not that many raptors, but then again, I also lived in a town (Montpelier).

That said, I think the predator problem will depend greatly on where you live. I never saw a fisher cat in my 18 years living in VT, but know people in the NE Kingdom and the Cabot/Groton area who dealt with them. Also never saw a bear, even while deer hunting, but bears should be the least of your worries anywhere in the lower-48, except maybe some of the states that have grizzlies out west. Black bears are timid and will probably be more interested in your trash than in you or your cat/dog.

[harry chickpea]

"The birds would have to be extremely hungry or starving - which means all their other prey would be non-existent or very scarce - and the circumstances would need to be just right (like maybe a chihuahua covered in gravy?) for this to occur."

LOL, perhaps more appropriately, a chihuahua covered in taco or enchilada sauce? I'd also like to suggest guacamole covered gekkos could be an endangered tasty treat. However, the world of advertising would be better off without them.