Move to VT - things to know beforehand (Burlington, Rutland: environment, relocation)

[dwiggin3]

Yes, this is ANOTHER “should I move to VT” post. But, I would appreciate the plain truth from the natives.

A bit of background, I was born and raised (until my teens) in Anchorage, AK so I like to think I’m at least aware of how cold and snowy it can get, the long and dark winters, all the mud in the spring as well as potentially isolating lifestyle. I’m also sensitive to the possibility that many Vermonter’s might not think too highly of transplants moving in droves to their state. Most Alaskan’s live in AK for the quality of life it brings and for many that means getting away from the ills that stem from urban living. I also assume that like Alaskan’s, Vermonter’s have a deep sense of pride and accomplishment in having lived life in a more rural, close-knit community and are not keen to give that up. AK is very much like that – we do things the “Alaskan way” – we do our own thing our own way and don’t take kindly to strangers trying to “fix’ us.

I currently live in Northern Virginia – about 10 min. outside of Washington DC. I went to college and graduate school here and in total, have been in NoVA about 15 years. I hate the urban sprawl, crime, politics, heinous cost of living and congestion. I do like the history of the area but New England certainly isn’t lacking there. While there are times I like to visit DC for the museums, to be honest, I’ve visited them less than half-a-dozen times in 15 years. A single-family home (zero-lot-line) will cost you at least 300K and that’s about 50 miles outside the city and you might be able to get a town-house for 200K about 50 miles outside of the city. It will take you at least 1.5 hours to get to work. The majority of people live in homes that cost at least 500K but they’re either over-extended or wealthy – the houses are never worth that much. For those of us like myself who can’t afford to purchase, a 1 bed/1 bath apartment will go for over 1200 a month and that doesn’t include utilities. I am fortunate that I live in a rent-controlled area very close to the city – my rent and the size of my place is unheard of (for those of who watch(ed) Sex and the City, think of Carrie Bradshaw’s apt.). Contrary to popular believe, Fairfax County, Loudoun County, Arlington County and other public NoVA schools are not as good as they are touted to be. Lots of issues with ESOL, test scores, gangs ect. Any green-space you find is either someone’s tiny, overly manicured lawn or a government-owned park. Wide-open spaces are unheard of unless you drive at least a few hours. Your dog only runs loose at the “dog park” – which is fenced in….you get the gist of things.


I’m looking to slow down and enjoy live. I’m young (32), single and while conservative, I’m open-minded. I currently work in higher education but have an advanced degree in environmental science and policy. Both are options for possible employment in VT (and NH to be honest). I want a quieter life, one that is not filled with miles upon miles of rush-hour traffic, one-ups-man ship, tasteless wealth, designer everything, Yuppies, expensive housing, outrageous food prices, no family values ect.. I want to find authentic people who live authentic lives, beautiful mountain and valley scenery, people who value rural life and don’t feel the need to develop every acre of land. Charming old houses that are a bit dilapidated, small family-owned farms, cold winters with snow, neighbors who might be a few acres away, but still check in on each other and help out when times are tough, stunning fall foliage, mild (low 70’s) summers with little humidity, clean air and earth, the smell of freshly mowed grass, cow and horse manure, wild animals (I love moose), burning leaves, little crime, and a place where families can let their kids play outside without worrying they’ll be snatched by a predator. This place may not exist, but I’m looking for something close to it.


I recently turned down a job in central VT due to relocation expenses and timing. The salary was only slightly more than what I’m making now but seemed to be doable for VT. The apartments I looked at were usually in large farmhouses that had been converted. While the rent was a bit high, it was still acceptable - I'm certain it had to do with the fact it was near a college/university. I’ve done research on the White River Junction, South Royalton, Lebanon and Hanover area and it seems like a nice place. Much smaller and slower paced than my area, enough amenities (restaurants, shops ect) but not too far from really rural areas. I will admit to enjoying some of the trappings of city life but when it comes down to it, as long as there is a grocery store and some type of Wal-Mart-like store within 45 mins, I’m fine.

I would love to hear folks thoughts on the pro’s and con’s of living in central VT. What people who move to this area need to know before they come, common mistakes newbie’s make, how to survive their first year without going crazy ect. Other things such as availability of rental housing (I love the idea of renting a converted farm house. I have NO desire for conventional mass-rental communities), price of food, transportation (do I really need 4-wheele drive) ect.

Many thanks,
Dwiggin3

[vter]

Montpelier keeps sticking out in my mind as I read your post. With your degree and work background, Montpelier should have some potential for you as well as Waterbury (state government).
Things to know....hmmm.....

1. Winter - yes, its cold and we get snow. One thing I cannot stress enough though is how gray it gets here....we don't see a whole lot of sun from November through March. Today is yet another one of those dreary days.

2. Shopping/ammenities - most of the larger towns will have pretty much everything you need - grocery store, hardware, etc. Major "mall" shopping is limited and you most likely will have to travel to it depending on where in VT you are.

3. Flatlanders vs. Natives - Native Vermonters are weary of new folk at first. Once you show that you really are here for the rural life then you'll become accepted, although you'll never be a "real vermonter" lol . Many, many people come up here from away and immediatly adopt the "now that I'm here no one else can come" attitude - basically against any kind of new development. Most natives invite certain development, as long as it's done on a Vermont scale - Wal mart is a good example, and now in Middlebury with Starbucks and Staples proposing to come to town - you'd think it is armegaddon LOL!. On the surface, it seems to be a native (for) vs. flatlander (anti) debate.

4. 4x4. It depends. If you live in town or a "suburban" setting, you'll do fine with a front wheel drive with good snow tires. If you live out in the country, you may want 4wd. It really depends on your preference though.

5. Vermonters are reserved....you're not going to have a welcome wagon if you move here. People tend to stick to themselves, but will help neighbors out in a pinch if needed. I would imagine it may be hard for newcomers to meet people here, as this is such a small state and we already have our social networks in place.

6. Hardly anything is open 24 hours here. Food delivery? Forget about it (unless you are in a larger town - Burlington, Rutland etc). You'll find that the sidewalks generally roll up by 8pm.

7. It can be a very isolating lifestyle, especially in winter. If you don't partake in a winter sport, take on up now. Skiing and snowmobiling are the big sports.

I'm sure others will have plenty to add and I'll be sure to post as I think of other things.....

[vter]

Oh - housing.
Don't be fooled by housing prices. Housing is very out of reach for many Vermonters as salaries have not kept up with housing costs. Sounds like that, should you be able to land a job, would make a decent salary, so maybe it's not much of an issue for you, but something to certainly think about.

[GypsySoul22]

Things I have found so far--(remember I am from outside NYC on LI)...
1. Yes, it is grey here...the fall/winter so far can be darn depressing, but then again I lived in England..this dampness is nothing compared to that. When it is sunny here--it is gorgeous. When it rains or is foggy (and I guess snowy...?) it's not pleasant. The fog just hangs (see my Thanksgiving photos). You seriously want to NOT do anything but stay inside (not an option for most people).

2. The pace is a lot slower. Applying for and getting jobs takes a long time. Also 'good jobs' are a lot tougher to get. Again, some people are easier to employ. My husband had no problems (thank God). He got a temp job within a few weeks and now has a good job, even though the hours are not ideal. I have only started looking seriously. I have an excellent education but 'don't expect' to get paid much...we'll see.

3. This is an old state...there are just a lot of older folks around. It's not a bad thing--I think it's amazing to see 50 and 60 somethings (or older) jogging and riding their bikes. It takes some getting used to--we don't see many kids around (which kind of 'stinks' for my son who is 9).

4. There are little annoying money robbing things they do here--I thought NYS was bad but here you only get your driver's license for 2 years or something and you pay 'a lot.' In NYS, for example, you get a 10 year one (but I can't recall how much they charge.)

5. I live near major shopping in another state so that is not an issue. We also recently discovered the local store (or the 'general store'). They are really nice in there as opposed to the 'local deli' where they are surly. Even in 'the sticks' you have options. Buy your stuff where they are pleasant.

6. There are more volunteer opportunities than jobs in the paper. It can be a bit daunting.

7. It is very beautiful here and it's quite possible to travel without much traffic. Coming from 'the land of the world's biggest parking lot' this is pretty amazing.

8. You can call places and speak to a person--in English...no option to press 2 for Spanish. You don't wait on hold for 40 minutes.

9. Very few fast food places--a good thing in my opinion.

10. Utilities are expensive. Our electric has been very high (thanks to the water heater in our apt.) There's nothing we can do about it except 'deal with it' till spring. We rent, don't own.

I am sure there is more...I am not trying to be rah-rah or negative--just giving some impressions.

[flu189]

Dwiggin3, I too know a bit about Anchorage as I actually lived there from 1983 to 2005 and then came back east to settle here in Vt. I too know a bit about urban living and congestion since I grew up in NYC. The best advice concerning Vt is to take a few trips here and get some face time with folks, especially potential employers. One of your paragraphs could have come right out of Vermont Life magazine. While it is true many of the wonderful aspects of life described do exist here they don't just happen. If you are financially well off and have unlimted time on your hands then Vermont can be a true four season paradise. Quality long term employment can be sketchy here therefore it is best to make sure before you leap. The cost of living is high, though not as high as you might be experiencing in NOVA. I guess right now the biggest concern with contemplating any move is the status of the economy meaning that it is very unstable and as you may or may not know today we technically entered into a ten percent market correction. I am not one to forecast doom and gloom, but if the economy continues to spiral downwards into the coming year it might be more prudent to more carefully decide on the merits of moving. Go back and read many of the threads and posts on the Vt forum and then fire away with questions. There are many here who I believe will give honest and candid responses, but also do your own research.

[chaz longue]

There's a lot of information here for you in other threads - I've moved one up for you...
I wouldn't leave Burlington VT for lotto money...but you should check out the threads about and by people who have left the state as well.

I agree - It seems you might like the Montpelier area. And it's close enough to The Burlington area for you to make the occasional provisioning raid...

David Beckett

[dwiggin3]

Thanks, I appreciate all the insight. I'll keep reading around this site as well as the NH site.

[MassVt]

...Nice post.. I enjoyed reading it.

You do seem to indicate a preference for rural Vermont, but I do think that you would be better off settling in Burlington. Going from the greater Wash DC area to a small town in VT would be too much of a transition, in my opinion. Check out openings with VT state gov't, UVM and perhaps various high-tech employers such as IBM for employment, and enjoy downtown Burlington, with the Church street marketplace.And keep in mind: you could live within Burlington city limits, and still be out in beautiful countryside within 20 minutes, and still enjoy some of the semi-urban comforts that I'm sure you would miss once you left DC.

[chaz longue]

Originally Posted by MassVt

...Nice post.. I enjoyed reading it.

You do seem to indicate a preference for rural Vermont, but I do think that you would be better off settling in Burlington. Going from the greater Wash DC area to a small town in VT would be too much of a transition, in my opinion. Check out openings with VT state gov't, UVM and perhaps various high-tech employers such as IBM for employment, and enjoy downtown Burlington, with the Church street marketplace.And keep in mind: you could live within Burlington city limits, and still be out in beautiful countryside within 20 minutes, and still enjoy some of the semi-urban comforts that I'm sure you would miss once you left DC.

I think you're absolutely right - but I'm biased, ...I live in Burlington.

[MissingAll4Seasons]

I've visited Burlington (albeit a few years ago)... for comparison, I'd say it's about as big/busy as Manassas VA or Mt Airy MD, and 2-3 times as big/busy as Anchorage. Hope that helps you Dwiggin.