[DauntlessDan]

Having lived in the NEK for 6 years, and Vermont for a lot of my early life, this is what I have to say. I agree with the poster that says to try the Burlington Area. St J seemed to be on the decline that last I saw of it this summer (no dig against St J intended). And it is the biggest town in the NEK area so it doesn't get any more urban that that. Lyndonville actually seemed to have more promise than St J the last time I saw it. Haven't been to Newport in some time. But what I DID notice in the NEK the last time I visited was that it is still very conservative compared to the rest of VT. "Old time" Vermont like. People do tend to look at "outsiders" that move there with anxiousness, mostly because, as I have found living amongst them, they don't want to see their old ways destroyed. And generally people from "away" want to come in and change everything. Nothing against you NEK'ers but I know what you are going through. There's change and then there's C-H-A-N-G-E. Anyway.....good luck with your search....sincerely.

[Donderklompen]

Everyone:

Thanks a whole bunch! I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help out. I've been trying to learn as much as I could about the area on my own before asking and I'm glad I did. Helped me understand better.

As a funny aside, every time I cross the border back to the US, I've been taking a different route through Vermont to try to learn more. I crossed at Norton, Vermont about a month ago. And, first of all, I was instantly pulled over for a secondary inspection (I expected this. Reason? Why is a guy from NYC crossing at Norton?) Anyway, used the opportunity to chat with the staff. Three of three border guards presumably living in the area agree: if you have the chance to live elsewhere, live elsewhere. One border guard put it this way: "It's not only rural, it's remote."

Not what I was necessarily hoping to hear, but if it saves a bit of heartache and a lot of money, I'm grateful. I guess I was hoping more for "lots of good people and not as bad as it seems." :-S

Anyway, to fill things out more since it came up: I think Quebec looks much different from the outside than from inside. The province is rapidly bankrupting itself (more than a third of Quebecers don't have regular doctors because the government gave a bunch of them early retirement in a cost-cutting move), cost of living is much higher than you'd expect (sales tax: 15.5%) and then there's the non-stop anti-immigrant, anti-English political chatter (right now they're trying to pass a law banning any religious garb by government employees which, here, includes doctors, university professors, etc.) Plus, my French will never be good enough to make it work (learning disability, fortysomething.) I would have gone back home a long time ago were it not for meeting such a great guy.

Still, I don't mean to give the wrong impression. I'm very much a glass half-full kind of guy and I'll take what you guys said to heart as I go back to the drawing board. But, once again, I just want to say that I really appreciate that a whole bunch of strangers took the time not only to read my rambling question but to be thoughtful (and honest) about their responses.

:-)

Dave

[Hopes]

I wouldn't be able to live in Quebec either. Is there any chance your partner could get a job in the states?

[swanstone1]

I worked for a great same sex couple who had moved from NJ to a very rural town within 15 minutes of Newport. They loved where they lived and commuted to Stowe for work. Yes, when you live in the NEK and crave that taste of "civilization" you have to drive, period! But, these two men told me stories about how their neighbors were rude to them, charged them more for services and borderline harassed them for years. Of course these are the ignorant rednecks which you can find anywhere you live and bad actions by a few do not define all.

I can attest to the fact that more out of staters are moving up which brings a welcome(to me) diversity and more open and accepting views. True, the "old school" Vermonters are not that welcoming because they see a "flatlander" plate and figure that person can't hack it and will flee soon anyway. So, if you want to live here do it. Spend time here and look for a home base because you can drive to everything else.

[Targo]

Originally Posted by swanstone1

…... Of course these are the ignorant rednecks which you can find anywhere you live and bad actions by a few do not define all. ...

You are remiss in not noting that ignorant rednecks aren't the only ones capable judging based on sexual orientation. I know some well educated liberals in VT that are pretty dammm good at it.

But I understand you point.

[delmioquartiere]

If you really draw attention to yourself in an unwanted way regardless in the NEK the locals have a way to get you out... usually attributed to the wood stove by investigators.

[Hopes]

Lovely.

[Donderklompen]

Again, thanks to everyone here. You've been more helpful than you may realize (and maybe helped me dodge a bullet.) The unanimity of your responses is striking to say the least. I guess I was expecting more "well, there'll be some challenges, but it's not as bad as you might imagine..."

Hopes: Yes, you're right, his getting a gig in the U.S. would be best generally all around. One dimension of this is that I think he'd rather be in the U.S. (or at least out of Quebec) at this point as well. Once he started travelling down with me to see my family in the NYC area, I wasn't surprised at how much he liked New York City but at how much he really liked New Jersey (Bergen County, Hoboken, Montclair, Asbury Park, Princeton.) It's very funny to realize (given what you guys are saying about the NEK and what I've experienced in Quebec) that New Jersey is cosmopolitan by comparison. Again, I'm certainly not saying any place is "better" than another. If anything, I'm admitting to my own naïveté. I don't want Vermont to be New Jersey or even vice versa, but it is sobering to be confronted with your built-in assumptions.

In any case, Hopes, the other thing I left out is that he works in a very small field. There are very few jobs that come up in all of the U.S. and Canada combined in any given year. So, it seems wise to plan with the current situation in mind. I think Vermont is truly lovely, but, trust me, I'm far from being someone who has any idea of living in some idealized Vermont. It happens to be the state that borders the area of Quebec where he works. I'm actually more willing to stay in the Eastern Townships (the area of Quebec just above Vermont) than my native Quebecer significant other. It's utterly boring as a place to live and it's still in Quebec but because it's a place where Montrealers tend to have second homes, it certainly is not a place that's resistant to people from "away." LOL.

So, the choice seems to be the relative isolation of rural Quebec or the relative isolation of rural Vermont. Hmmm. ;-)

At the risk of further imposing on everyone when you've already been so generous with your advice, anyone have any opinions about towns slightly farther south? Hardwick? (I do realize that's still in the NEK but seems like there are interesting things going on there and an article I read said it was the one town in the NEK that is attracting young people from "away".)

It occurs to me that maybe being in striking range of Montpelier/Burlington/Hanover might help us appreciate rural Vermont for what it offers, have small escapes when we need to and then plan larger escapes to NYC or Boston as necessary.

PS: As an aside, if anyone needs resto/travel recommendations in Quebec or NYC, hit me up, I'd be happy to help! And, thanks again.

[Donderklompen]

Thought I'd also throw in (I'm a research junkie) that Peacham (truly at the geographic limits of what is doable for us anyway) has a vastly higher median income than the surrounding towns. There have been other threads suggesting that Peacham is an NEK exception. Worth considering?

BTW, I'm fully willing to hear that it's hopeless and that...for my own sanity...I should give up and stay safely behind the Canadian border. :-)

[Donderklompen]

LOL...OK just read about Hardwick et al. on the boards. I think I've got it now.

I guess I should finally learn the words to O, Canada!...in French. :-)