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Old 01-27-2014, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Providence, RI
986 posts, read 2,024,423 times
Reputation: 366

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I agree that legalizing heroin is crazy talk. RunawayJim is unrealistically idealistic on what that would accomplish.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not... silly internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targo View Post
It currently appears to be easier and safer for kids to buy heroin than beer today. How'z that war of drugs going again?

I'm not a fan of the government "saving" us from ourselves.

Are we all here to live our lives as others deem appropriate?

Screw that.
This is my issue with the war on drugs. It's just prohibition, like with alcohol. I'd say alcoholism is a bigger issue than heroin addiction. It's just the crime that goes along with the black market that makes drugs look like a bigger issue. Get rid of the black market, use the tax dollars to support rehabilitation services, and the "problem" is gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
They could traffic all the heroin they wanted into my house, but I would not use it. Or marijuana, for that matter. The essence of drug addiction is demand, not supply. If there is not a demand for drugs, drug dealers will disappear faster than you can say Jack Robinson.
Legalization with proper education and monetary support for rehab services will do that.

 
Old 01-27-2014, 07:13 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 91,903,886 times
Reputation: 30377
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunawayJim View Post
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not... silly internet.
I don't think it would accomplish what you wish. There's stigma for all sorts of things that are legal.
 
Old 01-27-2014, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Behind You!
1,949 posts, read 3,497,472 times
Reputation: 2673
Quote:
Originally Posted by goingreene View Post
Hi everyone!

My family and I have wanted to move to Vermont for about 10 years now and it looks like we may finally be able to pull it off. However, and please do not take offense to this, I've read a lot lately about the heroin problem in Vermont. Can anyone elaborate? My family and I are not drug users and have common sense about staying away from areas where this type of activity may be more prevalent. But that's where you come in. Everything I've read makes it sound like it's everywhere. Is this true? Is it located more in some areas than others? Is there any advice you can give someone looking to move into Vermont? Areas that seem better than others? Or worse?

Again, please do not take offense, I just need to make an informed decision. Hope you understand. I appreciate anything you can suggest or tell me.

Thanks in advance!
There are MAJOR drug issues EVERYWHERE! If you don't use drugs don't worry about it. The area with the worst drug issues are higher end suburban rich kids. Move into a nice area with a low crime rate like anybody else. With the Legalization of Marijuana in CO now every state that doesn't want to follow will make a huge deal out of any drug related thing they can come up with so they can re-vilanize drugs, it's as simple as that. Herion has been overtaking marijuana with new users due to it's cheapness for YEARS, nothing new, nothing specific to VT.
 
Old 01-27-2014, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Providence, RI
986 posts, read 2,024,423 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I don't think it would accomplish what you wish. There's stigma for all sorts of things that are legal.
I know it's completely idealistic. It'll take time. The social stigma will still be there, at least for the foreseeable future (over time it will go away... alcoholics looking to get help are supported by their friends and families, not looked down upon... drug addicts are looked more down upon). The big thing is the government. Drug addicts don't like to go for help because it's illegal. Heck, there's a stigma to admitting you use drugs to your doctor. I decided to be honest to mine about using pot... and mentioned it helped the pain from a pinched nerve thinking I might get a script for medical marijuana since it was the only thing that actually alleviated the pain completely. Some doctors made light of it. Others basically told me they didn't consider it a viable option. If it was legal, it'd be different... and that's just marijuana. The same would go for cocaine or heroin... not that there's a medical purpose to them, but the stigma would be gone. More users would admit it to their doctors. They won't be prescribed drugs that will make them want more. They'll be treated like human beings rather than addicts or criminals. But until it's all legal, anyone who uses an illegal substance will receive substandard care... and not be anywhere near as likely to get the care they need.

I don't care about the social stigma. I don't care about what friends and families will think. I more care about the health care system not working for addicts because it's illegal and the law treats them as criminals.
 
Old 01-27-2014, 10:22 PM
 
908 posts, read 1,807,932 times
Reputation: 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunawayJim View Post
I'd say alcoholism is a bigger issue than heroin addiction. It's just the crime that goes along with the black market that makes drugs look like a bigger issue. Get rid of the black market, use the tax dollars to support rehabilitation services, and the "problem" is gone.
Bullocks.

Optimistically, only about 10-15% of heroin addicts ever successfully stay clean, even with the best rehabs money can buy. There is no proof rehab actually works for heroin addiction. The best thing we have are suboxone and methadone clinics, which are mostly lifetime maintenance solutions with significant health (some really horrific drug effects) and economic consequences. Rehab is not the panacea you seem to think it is; it's just another unaccountable industry like the prison industry.

Some drugs like heroin are simply too destructive, legal or not, to the social and economic fabric of a first world country. If we have the same number of heroin addicts as alcoholics in the US, you won't have much of a country. Next time before you promote your "legalize everything" theory, maybe you ought to pay a visit to a local methadone clinic and see your dystopia in action. A country of heroin addicts and a methadone clinic on every corner is not my idea of a free and prosperous country. That's what's going to happen if you legalize it. It only takes a few tries before you're addicted for life.

I'm a physician and have seen my share of heroin addicts. I don't treat them any differently than I would my other patients, but I would not wish a heroin addiction on my worst enemy. Some things have a social stigma for a damn good reason.

Last edited by Guineas; 01-27-2014 at 10:38 PM..
 
Old 01-28-2014, 06:23 AM
 
130 posts, read 240,198 times
Reputation: 148
NO more government regulation, it's the bane of the US of A!!!!!! scream many people.



































Except for drugs then regulate away.

Oh the irony.
 
Old 01-28-2014, 11:39 AM
 
908 posts, read 1,807,932 times
Reputation: 1317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Targo View Post
NO more government regulation, it's the bane of the US of A!!!!!! scream many people.

Except for drugs then regulate away.

Oh the irony.
It's only ironic to the feeble-minded who think in binary.
 
Old 01-28-2014, 07:49 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,409,133 times
Reputation: 1375
Do any of you remember when our troops in Afghanistan were told leave the poppy plants alone? Govt responded with Afghanistan has right to decide. The Voice of Russia said something like how can this be taken as anything but a joke, as US has invaded Latin American countries against their wishes, supposedly to stop drugs.

US govt is involved with drug dealing. According to internet sources, ministers and retired narcs included, CIA is world's largest drug dealer. There is probably nothing to stop them from bringing fatal drugs anywhere, & without telling the buyer, they can have unusually high purity to cause unexpected deaths. This helps to increase funding for cops & others that supposedly want us to be safer.

Remember the CIA comes to Obama every week to get approval for the kill list. Congress approves new head of CIA. Approving murders! I'm sad we may never feel safe anywhere, as long as govt-corp alliance makes big dollars killing people, including obviously harmless people. I could explain more clearly & in depth on Politics & Other Controversies.

Vermont has many cities/towns. What I advise is going to city-data.com which you can click at top of forums. Then look at serious crime rates for each place being considered. Best wishes.




Quote:
Originally Posted by goingreene View Post
Hi everyone!

My family and I have wanted to move to Vermont for about 10 years now and it looks like we may finally be able to pull it off. However, and please do not take offense to this, I've read a lot lately about the heroin problem in Vermont. Can anyone elaborate?

I appreciate anything you can suggest or tell me.

Thanks in advance!
 
Old 01-28-2014, 11:10 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,409,133 times
Reputation: 1375
NYC has so people, with money to spare, I don't understand why dealers think they can't get over $6 there when that might not be enough for a cup of coffee, & apartments cost thousands a month. It seems so odd dealers would sell heroin at coffee prices, are they that dumb?

NYC has home delivery of cannabis for $2,000 an ounce . If that's what they pay for something minimally addicting, why wouldn't they pay more for something intensely addicting with extreme withdrawal symptoms? Unless they realize that cannabis has 124 medical uses rxmarijuana dot com/ & a 0% death rate & are trying to be healthy. Any NYC people or others know?

Is heroin used mainly by unemployed & does VT have higher unemployment than NYC? At $30/dose, 10,000 doses daily=$2.1 million. So, 10,000 doses a day equals how many addicts?? Need to know how many doses a day is average, to estimate % using. If average was 10 doses a day, then 1,000 addicts, less than 0.2% of population, about 1 out of 600. They'd each need to steal $300/day for addiction. Best wishes.




Quote:
Originally Posted by vter View Post
From the Governor's State of the Union Speech:
Every week, our Drug Task Force estimates more than $2 million of heroin and other opiates are being trafficked into Vermont.

Due to our proximity to Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and other cities where heroin is cheap, dealers can make a lot of money from addicts in Vermont. A $6 bag of heroin in New York City can go for up to $30 here. So think about that: a $6 purchase could sell for five times as much, just a few hours up the interstate.

Gov. Shumlin's 2014 State of the State Address | The Official Website of the Governor of Vermont
 
Old 01-29-2014, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Providence, RI
986 posts, read 2,024,423 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJJG2012 View Post
NYC has so people, with money to spare, I don't understand why dealers think they can't get over $6 there when that might not be enough for a cup of coffee, & apartments cost thousands a month. It seems so odd dealers would sell heroin at coffee prices, are they that dumb?
Supply and demand. Lots of people means lots of supply and lots of dealers. There's likely plenty of other drugs to turn to down there that are easier to get there than in Vermont. So the prices are lower there to get people to buy that rather than something else. And we're not talking about users who are highly educated with great jobs. Those people stick with pot because it's not addictive and they can function while using it.
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