[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by goatwoodward

I'm considering Charlottesville, VA & you may want to look into VA as well - I keep hearing that Charlottesville is "like Burlington, only warmer"

Well Charlottesville is over 20 percent black, so that makes it a lot different from Burlington in terms of diversity. It's near Richmond, so it has to be hot and humid in the summer. Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed

[quickdraw]

Here's advice that isn't groundbreaking, but often neglected when someone falls in love with the house they just must have. Really pay attention to your home inspection. Vermont is very hard on homes because of the cold winters, and you can be out a lot of money fast when it comes time for repair or replacement. Other than the foundation (duh) I'd really encourage you to look at the furnace, roof, and chimney. I've been here 5 years and I've had expensive issues with each.

First a little history. My experience will be different than yours for two reasons. First, the lady I bought the house from was bizarre and sold her house in a bizarre fashion. She didn't list it anywhere but in a cheap supermarket real estate guide (not even a major one) and the house would be sold in 3 days to the highest bidder. There would be no re-bids.

Second, for the area, I consider my house to be one of a kind on a one of a kind lot. There was no way I was going to jeopardize losing it over a few repairs. Considering that I got my house way under value due to the weird
sales method, I accepted this.

Good news for those of you buying now, houses are sitting on the market longer so you have the power. Those of us who bought 4 or 5 years ago
were in a very competitive market and did not have the power. Lots of bidding wars.


First the furnace. A few years ago I would ask you how old it is, now I'll ask you how efficient it is too. How much was oil 5 years ago? $1.75? Now it's over $3.00. If you have an inefficient furnace you're going to get killed. This is a typical "Welcome to Vermont" feeling for many. It's expensive to live here even if you manage your resources properly, but old inefficient
furnaces just make things much worse.

How old is the furnace? Fifteen or twenty years? Count on spending at LEAST $4,000 to $5,000 for a new one in the next few years. If you're
lucky and it doesn't break down, you're just giving this money to the oil/
gas company instead. My furnace is over 20 years old, and I've probably sunk $1,5000 in repairs over 4 years. And of course there's every Vermonter’s fear, the furnace breaking down when it's twenty below and the water pipes in your basement breaking. The cost of new water pipes is huge, not to mention the water damage. A properly working, efficient furnace is a must.

If I had an extra $5,000, or could get an extra $5000
from the seller after the inspection, I'd definitely get one of those generators that automatically go on when your house loses power. What peace of mind that must be. Unfortunately when you live up here, you have a laundry list of things that need to be done and they all seem to be in the $3,000 to $5000 dollar range.

The roof. Well it's just December and we've already had a ton of snow and ice on the roof. Last year there was so much ice on my roof, when it slid off it pulled my septic pipe out of the roof, leaving a 12-inch square. That was an unexpected $1,000 to fix. Really check the roof, they take a licking around here. A leaky roof will ruin your ceiling and possibly cause mold. If you need to replace the shingles that'll be a few thousand.
If you have too many shingles and need a tear down, or new metal roof, count on $7,000 to $12,000.

The chimney. I've sunk $2,000 into it in the 4 years I've been here. The inside of my chimney collapsed near the top and wasn't allowing the smoke to escape. This resulted in a backup of smoke and caused creosol (sp?) in my chimney and furnace. Extremely dangerous. I had to have a new liner put in.

Don't forget, when you have a serious roof or furnace problem, it's an emergency. You don't have time to shop around and get estimates. And the repair guys know it. You'll be so freaked out, imagine having a 12 inch hole in your roof when it's supposed to sleet later in the day, you'll just be happy to get anyone quickly.

So how old is the house your looking at? Is it 20 to thirty years old like mine? You may very well be replacing everything fast.

Here's a list of my repairs off the top of my head (above and beyond regular maintenance) in 4 years

Roof- $1000 (and I need a new one this year which will be $9,000)

Chimey-$2,000

Furnace-$1,500

Replaced water heater-$600

Replaced washer and drier $900

Water softener and filter to get rid of stinky water $1,600

A lot of people post here, saying how expensive it is to live in Vermont. It doesn't have to be. Really look at your house. Is it a one of a kind house?
I live in a log cabin on ten acres in Williston. It's close to everything yet
rural and secluded. These kinds of places just don't hit the market very often
so I went with it. But if I'm looking at a typical house in town, or a townhouse, there's no way I'm buying a place with a lot of old stuff unless it's negotiated down after an inspection. The price of the house may seem cheap, but you'll end up paying in the long run.

[flu189]

I can very much relate to the cost perils of home ownership here and my house is fairly new, but suffers from shoddy construction and workmanship practices. Luckily for me none of these problems are in critical areas, but in my opinion need attention to maintain nice appearance and prevent further issues from developing. Many problems will never become apparent during a home inspection due to the builders cutting corners in areas that just don't lend themselves to discovery until something fails such as a leak from lack of proper flashing. However, when you buy a house you have to expect to incur annual upkeep and repair costs, especially as the home ages. The problem with much new construction is that they use the cheapest and lowest quality materials to keep costs down. I remember reading somewhere that you can expect to sink anywhere from 1 to 2 percent of the home's value into upkeep and remodeling. Many times prospective buyers become a bit too picky on issues which merely reflect normal and expected wear and tear and as in any business transaction everything is negotiable so the seller and buyer both seeking the best deal for themselves have to maybe compromise. I do agree that any defects or excessive wear issues with heating, plumbing, and electrical issues need to be dealt with, but again this is where a seller should offer a fair concession if not willing to spend the money up front. Quite a bit of our housing stock here is older so you can't expect to have all updated and efficient components like insulation, windows, or even furnace styles and ratings.

[Sherylcatmom]

These are all valid considerations. When we bought our more-than-century-old home, we had a thorough inspection done by Rutland West Neighborhood Housing (now NeighborWorks of Western Vermont), we did so in cooperation with Efficiency Vermont. Along with a great inspection, those guys scoured our house for energy leaks and reinsulated, sealed, and otherwise made our home more efficient. In over 7 years, we've repaired very little and it doesn't look like anything major soon. I think that resulted from a combination of thoroughness and luck. (Knocking on the very old wood!)

[arel]

Wow. Good to know. So rather than have a pirvate inspector inspect the house, it is better to have an agency inspect it? Or have an agency inspect it in addition to the private inspector?

Maybe it is a good idea to use a buyer's agent when you buy a home. At least then you will have an exdperienced professional in your conrner. With all the technical issues involved, and all the dirty tricks people play, I would think it helps to have an advocate.

[Sherylcatmom]

Hmm, I'm not sure I'd generalize from my experience to say it's better to have an agency than a private inspector. I don't necessarily disagree with that; I just don't have enough experience to make that claim. This is the first and only home I've ever owned! :-)

I think what I was getting at was that because we bought our house in collaboration with an Efficiency Vermont program and a housing nonprofit, more attention was paid to the inspection, and it included inspecting more parts of the house than usual and by more expert eyes than usual.

When we buy our next house, we will have a consultant with us who specializes in converting homes to use renewable energy, so we will have those kinds of eyes looking at the house as well as an inspector.

[pbehson]

Originally Posted by goatwoodward

I'm considering Charlottesville, VA & you may want to look into VA as well - I keep hearing that Charlottesville is "like Burlington, only warmer" and that other areas nearby are still nice, but less expensive. Asheville, NC & Austin, TX are liberal/non-religious oasis towns in the South. I've heard that there are also towns in Colorado, Oregon, & northern CA that approximate VT.

I attended college (and have family living) in Charlottesville, VA (Univ. of Virginia) and lived in Asheville NC for several years. I also lived in Lake Placid (and spend lots of time in Burlington). Asheville is more like Burlington than C'Ville, although both are somewhat similar. Asheville is inexpensive. Both are non-religious. Both are very nice.

[pbehson]

Originally Posted by wired one

The way I see it, being a home owner and single parent/wage earner..

I work for doctors so I will never set the financial world on fire. I have neither health insurance or retirement from my job which pays reasonably well. I rent out a room in my house to make ends meet.

Between my mortgage and utilities, I would be able to do reasonably well.. IF it weren't for heating my house. Oh yes, if I lived in the south, I'd pay for cooling.. but there it is. You CAN live without AC, but try living in vermont without heat. Vermont will suck you dry one way or another. I thank god my kids are beyond daycare.. I'd be sunk for sure if I had that to pay.

Yes, I could get another job with benefits.. but I would have to take a paycut that would make paying my mortgage impossible.

I figure I need to stay for two more years till my kids are out of highschool and off to college.. then.. sure.. I'd move in a heartbeat if I could find a place that I could afford that was-

1. warmer- much warmer
2. out of the jesus belt and not bush country
4. relatively close to an airport
5. had some kind of reasonable quality of life (including technology).

Any suggestions??

I lived in Lake Placid, NY and spent lots of time in New London, NH with my grandparents. I have been in Virginia Beach, VA for 9 years now and it is a very cool place to live. I'll elaborate if you want.

[chaz longue]

I always suggest buyers I'm working with have a look at a Seller Property Information Report (SPIR) before even making an offer on a property. If the property is listed with a Realtor and in the MLS - the listing agent will typically have asked the seller to fill this out. The agent working with the buyer will be able to get this for the buyer. Putting this in the buyer's hands BEFORE the offer is made can really help when structuring the offer ...and the property inspection contingency (!).

Once the offer becomes a contract, the inspector should inspect as soon as possible to leave plenty of time to get more information in light of what's discovered during the property inspection.

I also always suggest the inspector be chosen carefully: is the purchaser a first time home buyer? Is the property an older single family home on it's own septic system? A condo on town water/sewer? Is what's being bought residential property built prior to 1978? Are there questions about energy efficiency? Is it an old home? Is it a new home? Who's the builder? Can the buyer attend the inspection? What kind of work, repairs or remodeling is the buyer likely to do? Can the contractors who will be employed attend the inspection? Questions like this bear on who I'll recommend the buyer use as a Professional Property Inspector - I usually recommend the buyer speak with 2 or three and ask a lot of questions before deciding on one...

David Beckett

[Movin2VT]

You aren't kidding. I didn't know how bad our house was in need of repairs until I put up the Christmas lights. I placed my ladder on the fascia, and ripped through my shingles about 4-5 inches. Rain must have been rotting the boards away for a long time, and left only a shell. So I start checking the house up close...I find that my sliding glass door has been leaking under the floor joists-being the handyman that I am, I replaced the "untreated boards" with some fancy treated...now it can leak even longer! Lastly, again being the handyman that I am (I did not mention cheap), built a magnificant shower with some shower board stuff from Lowes, and sealed it with the vinyl tub and shower tape. Boy, did it look great-the wife was really impressed. It took less than two weeks for her to complain about the bottom of the shower turning brown, and tried to blame it on my feet, and my two showers a day. After a long discussion, of me talking to the wall, I noticed that my 'seal' hadn't sealed, and water was seeping behind causing the board to expand. So my ringing in the new year will be ripping the shower out...