[delmioquartiere]

Originally Posted by warren zee

History and Geography. It's more NE than it is Up State NY.

I think It's funny how many people refer to the Plattsburgh area as upstate, I feel upstate NY is MUCH further West like from Syracuse to Buffalo. Having lived in Rochester and Burlington I hear it miss used all the time.

Western New York — usually considered "upstate"

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

In a nutshell:

First, much of Vermont was settled by people from Connecticut, and the Connecticut River which forms the eastern border was the major early route when transport was by rivers. (Connecticut up to Waterbury CT was settled much before the interior of Massachusetts, which had little decent river access.) The water connection of Lake Champlain to the Hudson was lost after the ice ages and only re-established with the construction of the Champlain Barge Canal fairly late on.

The route to the north, through the Richeleu, was fraught with problems. Ice blocked it and the St. Lawrence for a large part of the year, the French and Indian populations weren't always friendly, and the loyalists were booted off their Vermont land into Canada. The only real traffic corridor for Vermont was the Connecticut River until the start of the railroads.

The Central Vermont RR served Connecticut, but there were connections to Boston, which then became the primary market for Vermont potatoes, hay, milk, cheese, lumber and syrup. There was some market towards Albany on the Delaware & Hudson, but it ran on the West side of Lake Champlain. Interchange with the Rutland RR was problematic, involving such oddities as floating RR bridges.

Portland ME did try to get commerce using its port by building a railroad across Vermont to Ogdensburgh NY and the lake traffic from the Great Lakes. It never amounted to much.

New York State to the west of Vermont had no good agricultural land until after the Adirondacks, so there was no significant interchange.

Mainly this^^^^

Maple syrup, Boston & Maine RR, early settlers from WMass heading north ended up there, usually via the CT River, fall foliage, skiing, New England charm, small New England towns that still look like New England towns, town meetings, independent people, Yankee ingenuity, frugal people. It depends on where you're viewing it from--not being very well connected to Boston means nothing. Most of WMass is not very much connected to Boston either. Vermont is the epitome of New England, it's the other states that don't seem as much like New England. I come from WMass so I see it differently. Except for the influx of New Yorkers, it's still the most genuine New England state of all.

[arctichomesteader]

Burlington is next to Vermont.

Much of the rest of New England (i.e., MA, CT, RI, southern half of NH) has been consumed by bland suburban and big box sprawl, and the unique culture of each area has slowly faded out.

[slowlane3]

Liberal politics, like is also true of MA (Gay marriage, a Socialist mayor of Burlington)

Prestigious private colleges, like Bennington and Middlebury

Many people with French-Canadian ancestry, as is also true of MA - RI - ME- NH.

[ABQConvict]

A lot of the things people say are qualifers for New England apply to a huge swath of New York east of the Hudson. But I suppose since Wicked_Pissah doesn't like New York there's no worries there. :-)

[Wicked_Pissah]

Originally Posted by ABQConvict

A lot of the things people say are qualifers for New England apply to a huge swath of New York east of the Hudson. But I suppose since Wicked_Pissah doesn't like New York there's no worries there. :-)

I've been to eastern upstate NY. I like parts of it. The Adirondacks are nice. I think I'd be much less hostile toward Vermont if I didn't constantly have to listen to people that have never actually been there talk about how great it is. I do think what I said about CT, especially western CT, holds true though. It's been my experience that most of CT identifies more with NYC than Boston.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Wicked_Pissah

It's been my experience that most of CT identifies more with NYC than Boston.

So? Since when was New England defined as "identifying with Boston"? Just because most of CT's population lives near NY metro doesn't mean they are not part of New England. Even that Manhattan commuter who is a Yankee/Rangers/Giants fan in our state will still call themselves a New Englander.

CT loves being near NYC, but prides itself as still being part of New England. Don't ever make that comment down here. You'll be laughed all the way to the state line - the MA line, that is.

[Aville239]

Originally Posted by Wicked_Pissah

To me New England is really only ME, NH and MA.

Basically, only people who have a Boston accent? What do you think about Western MA?

[Wicked_Pissah]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

So? Since when was New England defined as "identifying with Boston"? Just because most of CT's population lives near NY metro doesn't mean they are not part of New England. Even that Manhattan commuter who is a Yankee/Rangers/Giants fan in our state will still call themselves a New Englander.

CT loves being near NYC, but prides itself as still being part of New England. Don't ever make that comment down here. You'll be laughed all the way to the state line - the MA line, that is.

Likewise when someone from western CT claims that they're from New England we in MA, ME and NH laugh at them.

[Wicked_Pissah]

Originally Posted by Aville239

Basically, only people who have a Boston accent? What do you think about Western MA?

mmm the last time I checked western MA was still part of MA.