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Heroin and other opiates are a scourge everywhere, there's no getting away from it.
Vermont is taking the most progressive stance possible on heroin abuse. Traffickers and major drug suppliers will still be pursued, caught and prosecuted to the greatest extent of the law, but resident addicts will be shifted to treatment instead of prosecution.
Treatment? What treatment? People who get themselves addicted and commit acts of violence and burglary to support their habit are caught and set free to terrorize the towns they live in.
Our judicial system is a joke. No wonder NJ gangs send their apprentices up here for training.
Hmm, this got me thinking. Colorado does have some appeal to me. It's very liberal which for me is absolutely great, but I thought that the entire north-east coast was liberal?
Marijuana is somewhat a factor. I do have trouble sleeping at night and a rolling the old mary jane gets me asleep instantly, keeping me fresh for the next day.
Part of the reason I'm moving out of the Netherlands though is to get away from the busy life that there's no way of escaping here. I definitely won't live in Denver.
I'm also a huge fan of New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana & California so it's nice to be close to it. This gave me a lot of food for thought. Thanks!
I gotta tell you, I never understood where people got the idea that Colorado is very liberal. Liberatarian, yes, but that's somewhat the opposite of traditional Liberal ideas. Marijuana is legal there because its a live and let live society there. Do what you want but don't ask your neighbor for help. But liberal it is not. Tons of hunters, military, tea-partiers, etc.
I also don't understand the appeal of Colorado. The western 1/3 of the state is nothing but dry featureless desert. No fancy formations, no colors (like in Utah), no cactus, no real cities. Also is being fracked to death, with property values plummeting. Keep in mind in Colorado, you own the land and pay taxes on it, but you own nothing beneath it. No mineral rights, no water rights. A gas company can literally frack your land and pollute your groundwater without your permission.
The eastern almost 1/2 the state is empty grassland, flat, hot and filled with tornadoes. Also, its very poor, there's no real cities (unless you count Greeley which is an ugly, meth filled city filled with slaughterhouses). People in eastern Colorado don't like outsiders.
That's leaves the narrow Front Range, which is a fine place to live. Boulder is very nice but not really all that different than Burlington (I'd say Burlington is quite a bit nicer with the Lake right there and actual trees, not scrub brush trees). Both have people that will look at you weird for making a profit or eating meat. Denver is a great city, no question there, with real nice burbs too.
There is a bad radiation plume west of Denver, so that excludes living there, unless you are brave. East of Denver is flatlands (Denver is very flat, to most peoples surprise) and ugly Aurora, CO. South is nice but also quite conservative as you get toward Monument and Colorado Springs. Wilfires are common in the South, North, and West as well.
Just some things to keep in mind. Vermont is one of the last states to truly be free from commercialization, with intact downtowns and historic preservation as a driving force rather than an afterthought. Walmartization has not destroyed VT yet.
I gotta tell you, I never understood where people got the idea that Colorado is very liberal. Liberatarian, yes, but that's somewhat the opposite of traditional Liberal ideas. Marijuana is legal there because its a live and let live society there. Do what you want but don't ask your neighbor for help. But liberal it is not. Tons of hunters, military, tea-partiers, etc.
I also don't understand the appeal of Colorado. The western 1/3 of the state is nothing but dry featureless desert. No fancy formations, no colors (like in Utah), no cactus, no real cities. Also is being fracked to death, with property values plummeting. Keep in mind in Colorado, you own the land and pay taxes on it, but you own nothing beneath it. No mineral rights, no water rights. A gas company can literally frack your land and pollute your groundwater without your permission.
The eastern almost 1/2 the state is empty grassland, flat, hot and filled with tornadoes. Also, its very poor, there's no real cities (unless you count Greeley which is an ugly, meth filled city filled with slaughterhouses). People in eastern Colorado don't like outsiders.
That's leaves the narrow Front Range, which is a fine place to live. Boulder is very nice but not really all that different than Burlington (I'd say Burlington is quite a bit nicer with the Lake right there and actual trees, not scrub brush trees). Both have people that will look at you weird for making a profit or eating meat. Denver is a great city, no question there, with real nice burbs too.
There is a bad radiation plume west of Denver, so that excludes living there, unless you are brave. East of Denver is flatlands (Denver is very flat, to most peoples surprise) and ugly Aurora, CO. South is nice but also quite conservative as you get toward Monument and Colorado Springs. Wilfires are common in the South, North, and West as well.
Just some things to keep in mind. Vermont is one of the last states to truly be free from commercialization, with intact downtowns and historic preservation as a driving force rather than an afterthought. Walmartization has not destroyed VT yet.
Wow, VintageSunlight! I've been reading this forum for several years now, and this is the first time I've ever felt compelled to comment!
The things you say about Co. are so off, I have to wonder how much experience you have with the state. I've lived here for 17 yrs., and I almost don't recognize the place you're speaking of. Colorado is libertarian but not liberal? Huh? I don't think I've met more than one libertarian in all the time I've been here. There are lots of conservatives in Co. in certain areas but lots of liberals, too. Check the last two presidential elections, and you'll see just how liberal Co. has become. Boulder, for one, is a well-known liberal city, not to mention a lot of the mt. towns, like Aspen, for instance, and there's Denver. I think you need to do some fact checking.
Also, Boulder has only "scrub brush trees"? Again, huh? The town of Boulder is quite full of big, beautiful, mostly deciduous trees; many have been here for a long, long time. If you come into town from the east or southeast, as you get close to the Boulder Valley, you'll see a town that is very full of trees; what I'd call a "sea of trees". It's gorgeous. Scrub-type trees are what you see in places much further east in Co. where it's a lot dryer, and even then there are big trees, especially cottonwoods along the rivers and creeks.
And when you say, "people who look at you weird for making a profit", now I think you're just making stuff up! Boulder?! This is a large town full of entrepreneurs; well known for it's entrepreneurs. And trust me, people don't look at them "weird" for making a profit. On the contrary, if you've been here for long, you start to feel like everyone here came here to do just that: to make a profit! To start a business and make it big. Your description of Colorado, as a whole, just doesn't even sound familiar to a longtime resident. Even a person here for a much shorter time, I think, would scratch their head over your post.
And fires are something we deal with in dry years; that's very true. I can't think of even one we've had this summer. It's been great. But when we have fires, it's not like they're everywhere. They're most often in remote, forested areas. When they are closer to homes, you hear about it in the national news, because of the loss of structures and the high financial cost. Of course, lots of housing is in forested areas nowadays, but, still, that's not where the bulk of fires happen.
So, HelloThere2, in response to your questions about Co., many, many people absolutely love Colorado. In fact, when I first moved here with my family in 1997, we got a little sick of people talking about Co. as if there was no place better on Earth! Now that I've been here for so long, I agree with a lot of what they say. I often say that the best thing about Co. is the incredibly fresh air. I don't think I could ever move back east, as pretty as some parts are, because I couldn't stand the humid air again. I remember, btw, that someone said in this thread previously that we have temperatures in the 100's. Well, sure, we've had those days. Summer before last it even hit 105! But that was bizarre, and something I'd not experienced before nor most other area residents. 100 degree weather is just not typical here. This year we've had a near perfect summer with temps. seldom getting into the 90's. That's not typical these days either; usually more 90's and less rain, but unless we're in a drought, we get short, daily rains at about 2pm., and then it brightens up again and is sunny for the rest of the day. I can respond more on the weather, the abundant sunshine and other questions you may have about Co., but please take what you've heard about Co. on this forum with a "grain of salt", as they say. I love Vt., it's beautiful, but I wouldn't think to respond to most questions on this forum, even as someone who's been there many times. I leave that to the people who've lived there and are a better source of information.
Last edited by MaybeMaine?; 09-04-2014 at 11:07 PM..
Reason: To correct spelling
Wow, VintageSunlight! I've been reading this forum for several years now, and this is the first time I've ever felt compelled to comment!
The things you say about Co. are so off, I have to wonder how much experience you have with the state. I've lived here for 17 yrs., and I almost don't recognize the place you're speaking of. Colorado is libertarian but not liberal? Huh? I don't think I've met more than one libertarian in all the time I've been here. There are lots of conservatives in Co. in certain areas but lots of liberals, too. Check the last two presidential elections, and you'll see just how liberal Co. has become. Boulder, for one, is a well-known liberal city, not to mention a lot of the mt. towns, like Aspen, for instance, and there's Denver. I think you need to do some fact checking.
Also, Boulder has only "scrub brush trees"? Again, huh? The town of Boulder is quite full of big, beautiful, mostly deciduous trees; many have been here for a long, long time. If you come into town from the east or southeast, as you get close to the Boulder Valley, you'll see a town that is very full of trees; what I'd call a "sea of trees". It's gorgeous. Scrub-type trees are what you see in places much further east in Co. where it's a lot dryer, and even then there are big trees, especially cottonwoods along the rivers and creeks.
And when you say, "people who look at you weird for making a profit", now I think you're just making stuff up! Boulder?! This is a large town full of entrepreneurs; well known for it's entrepreneurs. And trust me, people don't look at them "weird" for making a profit. On the contrary, if you've been here for long, you start to feel like everyone here came here to do just that: to make a profit! To start a business and make it big. Your description of Colorado, as a whole, just doesn't even sound familiar to a longtime resident. Even a person here for a much shorter time, I think, would scratch their head over your post.
And fires are something we deal with in dry years; that's very true. I can't think of even one we've had this summer. It's been great. But when we have fires, it's not like they're everywhere. They're most often in remote, forested areas. When they are closer to homes, you hear about it in the national news, because of the loss of structures and the high financial cost. Of course, lots of housing is in forested areas nowadays, but, still, that's not where the bulk of fires happen.
So, HelloThere2, in response to your questions about Co., many, many people absolutely love Colorado. In fact, when I first moved here with my family in 1997, we got a little sick of people talking about Co. as if there was no place better on Earth! Now that I've been here for so long, I agree with a lot of what they say. I often say that the best thing about Co. is the incredibly fresh air. I don't think I could ever move back east, as pretty as some parts are, because I couldn't stand the humid air again. I remember, btw, that someone said in this thread previously that we have temperatures in the 100's. Well, sure, we've had those days. Summer before last it even hit 105! But that was bizarre, and something I'd not experienced before nor most other area residents. 100 degree weather is just not typical here. This year we've had a near perfect summer with temps. seldom getting into the 90's. That's not typical these days either; usually more 90's and less rain, but unless we're in a drought, we get short, daily rains at about 2pm., and then it brightens up again and is sunny for the rest of the day. I can respond more on the weather, the abundant sunshine and other questions you may have about Co., but please take what you've heard about Co. on this forum with a "grain of salt", as they say. I love Vt., it's beautiful, but I wouldn't think to respond to most questions on this forum, even as someone who's been there many times. I leave that to the people who've lived there and are a better source of information.
Well, I haven't been there as long as a long time resident, but have friends who live there and also have visited quite a bit. I will concede to your description of the state. However, I will back up a few of my statements.
I'll sum up the West by saying: "you do what you do, I'll do what I do, and hopefully we won't interfere with one another. If we do, I am well armed and will protect myself". That's libertarian to me. So, that's what I meant.
Boulder, compared to VT, is anything but lush. It can't be, its a fairly high altitude, semi-arid environment. Most of the trees were planted in the city, but in the forests surrounding the city, its a very dry forest. Not at all like VT, which gets 55" of rain a year compared to 12" or so in Boulder.
Perhaps my assessment of Boulder's business community is off. I remember being in a part of the city walking right around this area: http://goo.gl/maps/iYn7o
and there were quite a few protesters approaching us and complaining about something vegan or fair-wages or something. I'm not against this, mind you, but it did remind me of Church Street in Burlington. Also, I'm not implying that Boulder isn't beautiful, it is.
Well, I haven't been there as long as a long time resident, but have friends who live there and also have visited quite a bit. I will concede to your description of the state. However, I will back up a few of my statements.
I'll sum up the West by saying: "you do what you do, I'll do what I do, and hopefully we won't interfere with one another. If we do, I am well armed and will protect myself". That's libertarian to me. So, that's what I meant.
Boulder, compared to VT, is anything but lush. It can't be, its a fairly high altitude, semi-arid environment. Most of the trees were planted in the city, but in the forests surrounding the city, its a very dry forest. Not at all like VT, which gets 55" of rain a year compared to 12" or so in Boulder.
Perhaps my assessment of Boulder's business community is off. I remember being in a part of the city walking right around this area: http://goo.gl/maps/iYn7o
and there were quite a few protesters approaching us and complaining about something vegan or fair-wages or something. I'm not against this, mind you, but it did remind me of Church Street in Burlington. Also, I'm not implying that Boulder isn't beautiful, it is.
I'm a native Vermonter who has lived in both Burlington and Boulder.
Boulder is nice, but it's a college town, just like Burlington. Boulder has no real water bodies to hang out at, Burlington has the amazing (but dirty-ish) Lake Champlain. (Stop spreading liquid manure, and it won't be so dirty.) The weather is also more temparate in Boulder.
As has been mentioned, Burlington has no city close by to do anything. If you don't like college bars full of 21 year olds, you're out of luck. Montreal is close-ish, but you're still crossing the border.
Boulder is the winner for sure, just because of the options you have with a city close by, and a larger population.
So on to my question: Is Vermont a nice place to live (or start) ? Or am i better off looking at states like Colorado or Wyoming ?
Thank you for your time and kind regards.
I clicked on this because it showed up on the index page. I don't want to come off as a bitter old tool who trolls past state forums to say bad stuff. That said, here are my observations based on three years outside of Rutland.
There are places in Vermont that are liberal and free-thinking, but not as many as the media would have you believe. In Rutland, we suffered a community that was not very welcoming to outsiders, "Flatlanders" etc, a provincial mindset in more paces than we would have imagined. But, every rural area has this, so its not just Vermont. Other issues to consider for someone looking to move to VT~ You are totally dependent on your car in most areas. And, it took lots of effort to partake of culture. Lots of driving involved to do certain things. The thing that really bothered us more than anything else was the darkness. It just wore us down after about the second year. And finally, no jobs. I worked humiliating McJobs to get by. That also gets old, fast. All this stuff may not bother you . . . just stuff to think about. When a family emergency arose, we determined it would be better to move rather than try to manage it from the Rutland area.
So, in summation, I would say to check out the area you are considering very carefully. I feel if we stuck to our original plan to live in Montpellier, Woodstock or Burlington type area, things might have worked out. Rutland was a poor match for what we were looking for. I still like Vermont and would love to visit again, but I offer our experiences for others to think about as people who like many others, tried it but just couldn't make it.
In my opinion Vermont is a very desirable
place to call home. It's got beautiful scenery
and is close enough to Boston if at any time
you need to visit a real city.
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Is Vermont a desireable place to live?
