[turnyourback]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

On a donkey maybe. An elderly donkey. In a car, no. This is absolutely ridiculous. Fifteen minutes maybe. Twenty minutes if its slow.

haha. being from new jersey, i definitely agree with this comment. the traffic in burlington is NOTHING like what i'm used to...and i feel like even people who aren't from extremely congested places like nj or ca would agree. it's really not that bad.

[Jillaceae]

I would agree, Burlington does not have anything I would call traffic congestion. It has "traffic" in that there are multiple cars on the road at once, but it absolutely pales in comparison to anywhere else I have lived. We just moved from Burlington, and personally, I hated it. 1a. Moronic Drivers. I hated driving in Burlington because it scared me to death. I felt safer driving in LA. Jerk drivers I can handle, but Burlington drivers are on another planet. I have never lived anywhere else where people routinely made left turns across my lane right in front of me (including stopping across my lane to wait for entrance to theirs), or where people so clearly do not understand the concept of "left turn yield to oncoming traffic; (Clue: I does not mean you go first, nor does it indicate some sort of every other situation). I have also never before seen people routinely cross over into lane of oncoming traffic to avoid in obstacle in their lane with complete disregard to whether or not there is oncoming traffic. I seemed not so much that drivers of Burlington are courteous, but that they assume you are courteous and will get out of their apparently very important way. While I have no problem letting people by/in/whatever, this is not an assumption drivers should be making.
1b. Cyclists. This isn't just Burlington; every "bike-friendly" city I have ever has had this problem to some extent. Walking or driving, I hate dealing with cyclists who apparently do not understand that they need to follow traffic laws. Very few cyclists in Burlington, for instance, seem to understand that they are required to stop at stop signs and lights. Quite a few times as a pedestrian, I got nearly hit in a crosswalk by some cyclist, and always when they were plowing through an intersection they shouldn't have been (and then yelled at me to get out of their way). And of course you can't criticize them because they are apparently doing something good for the environment, and are therefore faultless. Ironically, most probably have "Share the Road" bumper stickers on their cars, while they clearly do not feel they should have to share the road with anyone. I have no problem with cyclists who actually know how to cycle on streets in any way. But I wish people who don't, or people who think for some reason they are exempt would just stay home. Also, Burlington has the distinction of having the greatest percentage of cyclists without helmets I have ever seen.
1c. Downtown Pedestrians. Just because Church Street is a pedestrian street doesn't mean they all are. Burlingtonians seem to have an issue with meandering out into the street. I actually got yelled at by someone when I didn't slam on my brakes to let them J-Walk in front of me, when there was a crosswalk about 15 feet away. I hope these people never visit a real city. They will go squish.
1d. People on the bus. I took the bus to work. I have taken the bus routinely in almost every city I have lived, and the people of Burlington appear to not be able to handle the concept. About once a week someone would get on the bus, and then later get confused and upset when the bus was not going where they wanted to go. Also, people appeared to think the bus was some sort of taxi that would take them right to their destination. I have never ever seen people before who expected the bus to just stop wherever for them. There was even one guy (very healthy looking) who sometimes rode my morning bus that insisted it stop one block up from the actual stop. You can't walk an extra block??? I realize people make mistakes, but when I am late for work because someone couldn't handle actually looking up where a particular bus was going, that is not okay. Maybe it was just my bus? Let's hope.
2. Shopping/Restaurants overpriced for actual Burlington residents. It is a city that caters entirely to tourists and college students spending their parents money. Nice for those people, extremely depressing for everyone else. Something I find amusing: everyone says they hate sprawl, and yet the box stores in Williston are always packed. To be honest, Burlington needs a little sprawl to support its low-income residents.
3. Completely ridiculous rental market. This is probably my biggest Burlington peeve. All college towns are a little more expensive, but Burlington is just insane. Not just the unreasonably high prices, but the fact that Burlington's rentals are almost exclusively dumps. Rental prices should be based somewhat on land value. I fail to see how one of the cheapest housing markets I have ever lived in can justify being the most expensive rental market. Burlington is not a big city. It is actually relatively small. And yet there I paid the highest rent I've ever paid for the crappiest apartment I have ever lived in. I got more for my money everywhere else I have lived, including downtown Seattle.
4. You aren't allowed to criticize anything. Ever. (Which I am sure I will get chastised for here. ) I don't mean just bitching. I mean pointing out that the city has flaws and trying to constructively solve them. No city is perfect, but this is apparently news to the residents of Burlington, who shake their heads at you as though you are some sort of "trouble maker" when you point out that there are areas Burlington could improve on. I think really it stems from the fact that, having lived in several large cities, Burlington appears to me to be a small city pretending it is some sort of cosmopolitan hub. I have also lived in cities comparable in size to Burlington, and Burlington to me seems like it is trying to be something it isn't. Maybe people think I am a snob, but I wish Burlington would actually act its size. I actually like the rest of Vermont very much, but to me Burlington takes itself way too seriously.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by Jillaceae

I would agree, Burlington does not have anything I would call traffic congestion. It has "traffic" in that there are multiple cars on the road at once, but it absolutely pales in comparison to anywhere else I have lived. We just moved from Burlington, and personally, I hated it. 1a. Moronic Drivers. I hated driving in Burlington because it scared me to death. I felt safer driving in LA. Jerk drivers I can handle, but Burlington drivers are on another planet. I have never lived anywhere else where people routinely made left turns across my lane right in front of me (including stopping across my lane to wait for entrance to theirs), or where people so clearly do not understand the concept of "left turn yield to oncoming traffic; (Clue: I does not mean you go first, nor does it indicate some sort of every other situation). I have also never before seen people routinely cross over into lane of oncoming traffic to avoid in obstacle in their lane with complete disregard to whether or not there is oncoming traffic. I seemed not so much that drivers of Burlington are courteous, but that they assume you are courteous and will get out of their apparently very important way. While I have no problem letting people by/in/whatever, this is not an assumption drivers should be making.
1b. Cyclists. This isn't just Burlington; every "bike-friendly" city I have ever has had this problem to some extent. Walking or driving, I hate dealing with cyclists who apparently do not understand that they need to follow traffic laws. Very few cyclists in Burlington, for instance, seem to understand that they are required to stop at stop signs and lights. Quite a few times as a pedestrian, I got nearly hit in a crosswalk by some cyclist, and always when they were plowing through an intersection they shouldn't have been (and then yelled at me to get out of their way). And of course you can't criticize them because they are apparently doing something good for the environment, and are therefore faultless. Ironically, most probably have "Share the Road" bumper stickers on their cars, while they clearly do not feel they should have to share the road with anyone. I have no problem with cyclists who actually know how to cycle on streets in any way. But I wish people who don't, or people who think for some reason they are exempt would just stay home. Also, Burlington has the distinction of having the greatest percentage of cyclists without helmets I have ever seen.
1c. Downtown Pedestrians. Just because Church Street is a pedestrian street doesn't mean they all are. Burlingtonians seem to have an issue with meandering out into the street. I actually got yelled at by someone when I didn't slam on my brakes to let them J-Walk in front of me, when there was a crosswalk about 15 feet away. I hope these people never visit a real city. They will go squish.
1d. People on the bus. I took the bus to work. I have taken the bus routinely in almost every city I have lived, and the people of Burlington appear to not be able to handle the concept. About once a week someone would get on the bus, and then later get confused and upset when the bus was not going where they wanted to go. Also, people appeared to think the bus was some sort of taxi that would take them right to their destination. I have never ever seen people before who expected the bus to just stop wherever for them. There was even one guy (very healthy looking) who sometimes rode my morning bus that insisted it stop one block up from the actual stop. You can't walk an extra block??? I realize people make mistakes, but when I am late for work because someone couldn't handle actually looking up where a particular bus was going, that is not okay. Maybe it was just my bus? Let's hope.
2. Shopping/Restaurants overpriced for actual Burlington residents. It is a city that caters entirely to tourists and college students spending their parents money. Nice for those people, extremely depressing for everyone else. Something I find amusing: everyone says they hate sprawl, and yet the box stores in Williston are always packed. To be honest, Burlington needs a little sprawl to support its low-income residents.
3. Completely ridiculous rental market. This is probably my biggest Burlington peeve. All college towns are a little more expensive, but Burlington is just insane. Not just the unreasonably high prices, but the fact that Burlington's rentals are almost exclusively dumps. Rental prices should be based somewhat on land value. I fail to see how one of the cheapest housing markets I have ever lived in can justify being the most expensive rental market. Burlington is not a big city. It is actually relatively small. And yet there I paid the highest rent I've ever paid for the crappiest apartment I have ever lived in. I got more for my money everywhere else I have lived, including downtown Seattle.
4. You aren't allowed to criticize anything. Ever. (Which I am sure I will get chastised for here. ) I don't mean just bitching. I mean pointing out that the city has flaws and trying to constructively solve them. No city is perfect, but this is apparently news to the residents of Burlington, who shake their heads at you as though you are some sort of "trouble maker" when you point out that there are areas Burlington could improve on. I think really it stems from the fact that, having lived in several large cities, Burlington appears to me to be a small city pretending it is some sort of cosmopolitan hub. I have also lived in cities comparable in size to Burlington, and Burlington to me seems like it is trying to be something it isn't. Maybe people think I am a snob, but I wish Burlington would actually act its size. I actually like the rest of Vermont very much, but to me Burlington takes itself way too seriously.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by BickleTravis

Everywhere else, expect to see a lot of Subaru Outbacks plastered with the same bumper stickers every 10 feet.

Groupthink

[sundialstreet]

One of the real pluses of Vermont is the lack of traffic. After driving the 405/101/110 in SoCal for years (learned to drive on those bad boys) I certainly don't think anything of the Dorset Street 500

[flu189]

Oh my, memories of my native Queens circa 1960s and 1970s.

[Wingfoot]

wall to wall snobs bother some