[Gazelle]

Hello One and All.

Would someone please tell me how bad the drug scene is in comparison to other uni towns ~ why might it be worse? My daughter might be enrolling

[MassVt]

Mad Taoist,

I'd say that iwas a bit of an exaggeration that Burlington would be that much warmer than the rest of the state. Burlington is perhaps a few degrees warmer than say, Stowe, because the latter is in the Green Mountains, but not anything to make a fuss about. During the month of January, you can expect to have 5-10 nights with the temperature dropping below zero, and the daytime highs struggle to reach the low '20's. I don't think that this would be a dramatic change from Wisconsin (I've lived in both states).

Arel,

In all honesty, I'm not sure that Brattleboro is really for you, and for one reason: size. To go from a multi-million population to one of perhaps 10-20 thousand would be too much culture shock. Burlington would be a better choice, but even this choice would pale in comparison to Brooklyn/NYC. I think that you're pretty sincere, but maybe something in upstate NY might be better (Albany area, perhaps?). You should be prepared for a major transition in your life to undertake living in VT , while leaving behind the world of NYC.

[arel]

Originally Posted by MassVt

Mad Taoist,


Arel,

In all honesty, I'm not sure that Brattleboro is really for you, and for one reason: size. To go from a multi-million population to one of perhaps 10-20 thousand would be too much culture shock. Burlington would be a better choice, but even this choice would pale in comparison to Brooklyn/NYC. I think that you're pretty sincere, but maybe something in upstate NY might be better (Albany area, perhaps?). You should be prepared for a major transition in your life to undertake living in VT , while leaving behind the world of NYC.

Actually, I am from southern Brooklyn, which, compared to much of the rest of NYC is very suburban. Congested, yes, but not really urban like downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan. Very residential, and the ocean is about 1-2 miles away. When I go to Manhattan, I have to budget at least 1-1 1/2 hours to go by public transportation, less if I go by car. In Brattleboro, I can be at an arts venue in minutes, instead of in over an hour.

I believe there was a person on these forums who made the transition from Brooklyn to Island Pond, VT, which is in the middle of the NEK. I can't imagine making a transition like that. But Brattleboro is a lot like Greenwich Village, which is my favorite neighborhood in Manhattan.

[arel]

Originally Posted by arel

As always, Sherylcatmom, your points are very well taken!

I tried to give you some rep points, but the software wouldn't let me.

One thing I do love about NYC is the ethnic and cultural diversity. I meet people from all over the world. Just this week, I stopped in a deli and the guy at the counter was Pakistani. I offered my condolences over what had happened in Pakistan.

There are lots of ethnic restaurants in NYC, in both Manhattan and in the outer boroughs. There are a LOT of ethnic restaurants in Queens, which, I believe, is the most ethnically diverse county in the country.

But nothing compares to food from the Brattleboro Food Co-op, even food from the Flatbush Food Co-op here in Brooklyn. I think the best muffin I ever ate came from the Brattleboro Co-op. And the closest thing we have here to local produce is farmers' market produce from upstate New York.

And Brattleboro does have SIT, with its international student body. Plus urban-style, surburban-style and rural neighborhoods. Thankfully, it does NOT have the "surburban sprawl of manufactured neighborhoods", which you described.
My only concern about a small town like Brattleboro is that you run into the same people all the time. It's like being on a college campus. It's probably healthier to be known than to be invisible, as you are in a big city (although not as much in the residential neighborhoods). But I am concered about insularity, about gossip and about running into the same people in mutually incompatible contexts.

Maybe 2008 will be the year I move to Brattleboro. Maybe I'll wait for the housing crisis to stabilize first. Maybe not.

Woops, I forgot. I think I saw some housing developments in West Brattleboro.

[chaz longue]

Originally Posted by vter

Like Sherylcatmom said, only you can figure that out for yourself. EVERYONE is different. I LOVE Burlington (and the surrounding area). I live in a rural community about 20 miles away and work in SB. Burlington has everything I want/need in a town (well, except Target). I for one could never live in Rutland where Sherylcatmom lives, but thats just my personal opinion. Obviously Sherycatmom loves it and thats great!
Regarding sprawl etc. in Burlington, its there but its not on the scale of larger areas as mentioned above. I was just down in the Boston area and Burlington's suburbs seem like tiny villages compared to down there.

...and if my spies are correct, you'll have a Target soon, too.
David Beckett

[vermont08]

Originally Posted by chaz longue

...and if my spies are correct, you'll have a Target soon, too.
David Beckett

You are kidding right???? I know someone said a while back that one was set to open across the lake in NY but you are saying one should be coming to the Burlington area?

[vter]

Yes...Plattsburg's Target is under construction and yes, Target Corp has been sniffing around greater Burlington for some time now. No applications/plans for development have been filed that I know of. I'm sure it's only a matter of time. Vermont's first Lowe's will be opening in a couple weeks in SB after a lengthy planning process/legal battle.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by Gazelle

Hello One and All.

Would someone please tell me how bad the drug scene is in comparison to other uni towns ~ why might it be worse? My daughter might be enrolling

UVM is definitely appealing to kids who are looking for a funky, artsy, bohemian atmosphere. So there is definitely a decent amount of pot around. As for other drugs, like every other city in America, they're available if you look for them. Bottom line, I wouldn't let drugs be an issue here at all.

I'll say another thing about the university as someone who has lived in several college towns. I see a lot less drunk kids around here than most places I've been. I see very little yelling ,staggering, and other drunken behavior around Burlington even late at night. I find the UVM students to be
nice, laid-back kids.

[possumator]

Chittenden county which includes the cities of Burlington, South Burlington, and Essex Junction, while quaint, picturesque, and usually quiet, has increasingly serious traffic problems. Getting anywhere fast in Chittenden country is a problem. In my past job as a field service computer tech, it really got annoying. Many of the roads are not in very good condition either. There are lots of bumps, pot holes, and confusing traffic lane markings. What Vermonter's don't seem to understand is that time is money, and so much time is wasted in Vermont traffic.

Most people who work in the Burlington area do not live there. Generally they commute 20-40 miles each way. The interstates are generally pretty decent. However, near many of the busiest exits, traffic backs up onto the Interstate itself (Quite dangerous).

Vermont is very much in denial about its growth, and generally refuses (or is unable) to take steps to build an accommodating infrastructure. A good example is the Circumferential highway. It has been planned for over 40 years and only a few segments have been built. Currently an out of state environmental litigation group has it frozen in court. Their latest frivolous claim is it will contribute to global warming (even though the alternative is long traffic jams where cars get nearly zero miles per gallon). Here read the comments for yourself: Comments Received

Vermonter's are their own biggest enemies and their absolute disdain for any kind of growth prevents good jobs and affordable housing.

The results are an extremely high cost of living in combination with very low wages, and major traffic problems. An example of the latter is during the evening rush hour in Burlington, it often takes 1 hour to travel the 2 miles from downtown Burlington to the Interstate.

[chaz longue]

Possumator - Thanks for sharing your observations. There's traffic at times in Chittenden County now, and there wasn't, once. I don't believe many would describe this as "major traffic problems", but perhaps I don't drive at busy times enough to understand...

It's not going to get better any time soon, I'd wager - but this is par for the course: places with this high quality of living don't stay undiscovered forever. A childhood friend moved to Seattle in the early eighties, and has been dying to move back to Burlington ever since, ...claims it's just been trashed by it's growth.

I'm not aware of any place anywhere which is entirely milk and honey...but Burlington VT is close to perfect for me, rush hour delays or no...

I'm wondering - ...would the Circumfrential Highway help get folks from College Street to the interstate near The Sheraton faster at 4:45 on a Tuesday evening? I suspect not, but this isn't merely a rhetorical question, I don't pretend to truly understand all these growth and transportation issues...

I've got kids about to move to Boston. In Boston there's traffic, by golly...

Cheers,
David Beckett