[Grybas44]

Ian. Wow, what a great sounding place. Dynamic, creative, progressive...so many buzz words. I am confused though. It seems you have failed to mention how new businesses/industries are able to open and if they do open they have trouble sustaining themselves in the area. It is terrible that the colleges and universities in Vermont more or less bribe students by giving tuition breaks to those who stay in the state. The students need to promise to remain in the state for an extened period of time if they want to keep these tuition breaks. But Vermont doesn't promise there to be jobs for these students. Why are there no jobs? No business owners want to come here. Why do they not want to come here? Vermont does not wlecome them, because they do not want them to disrupt the hometown feel. Who makes the decisions to not allow these businesses? The progressive, dynamic, creative politicians. Rebuilding an old structure is nice, I agree. Preserving the past is very important . However, I am missing how doing this makes the economy more solid. When you run out of old houses, then what do you do? The traffic here is a joke. I have lived in Arlington, San Diego and other big cities. They find ways to ease their congestion. Why not here? Well, once again the progressive, dynamic, creative people wouldn't want to disrupt their lives. Ian, every part in the last paragraph you wrote told about things one can do in their free time. And I have done all of them. However everything in the last paragraph involved leaving Burlington for other areas. All the renovated houses in Burlington can't sustain an economy if the people in them are taking their money elsewhere. Right?

[Grybas44]

Vter. I liked what you wrote. However, my comments about the airport are based on the past six months. I have lived here much longer than that and have seen the transition at the airport. It is much better than the old one. The flights you mentioned were all during the slow season for travel. I researched the numbers for Burlington and have talked with people in the travel industry. These sources have shown the cost is higher in Burlington. With the parking there is a serious issue. The new concourse that was recently constructed will bring in more flights. This will help to offset the ticket prices. However, more planes mean more people. More people mean more cars. More cars mean less parking. This past Christmas the garage was full. The alternative was to park on the half-plowed road in front of the airport. This had the potential for problems. Thank goodness there were none.

[vter]

Regarding airport parking, from what I hear, the airport plans to expand the garage. I have not have had any trouble at all finding reasonable ticket prices when I fly...maybe because my schedule is very flexible. I do remember when growing up we would always drive to Boston to fly as it was much cheaper than Burlington.

[vermont08]

Ok here is one "out of towners" take on some of the points Grysbas44 has made. We live right now about 20 min outside of Baltimore MD if you want an idea of where I am coming from. We made our first trip to Burlington in late June. We are moving to Vermont no latter then March/April.

1. Homeless people, well I can say that during our trip we saw 2 homeless people and that was with us driving all over town during a warm late June good weather weekend. Both these people were outside of town not near Church St.

2. Graffiti, We did notice some in the old north end. Nothing like hear by any means but I was however shocked that there was some. This has been in the news and the local police have been taking stronger actions to prevent it. Also from what I have researched it is not gang related and was done by young teens being silly.

3. Traffic, We drove thru downtown, the old and new north end and then out by the airport area from 4:30pm - 6pm on a Friday to get an idea....and well if you think there is a traffic problem I am not really sure what to say. Other then as someone who has lived in 5 states over the last 10 years (MD, PA, TX, FL, CA) in major cities it was a dream. The other drivers are very respectful, not rushed, and do not have road rage. Also they let you turn left at traffic lights. They actually stop for those walking and watch out for children and dogs who may run into the road. You do not find this everywhere. Driving was actually a joy, we did have to stop a lot when driving near Church St on Sat. and Sun. but nothing horrid. Also the town is very walk and bike friendly and we felt very sake walking with our two toddlers in the downtown area and Church St. because of how safe people drive. This is actually one of the top ten reasons for us moving to the area.

4. Culture, again this is one of are top 10 reasons for moving to the area. Now culture is however very personal. What we are looking for as a young and still hip (we like to think anyhow) family there are great things to see and do. Lots of local festivals and events. But we we consider fun as a what people term as "crunchy" "econuts" who are looking for a more well balanced life might be very different then what other people are looking for.

5. Fashion, hum well we are not so much as concerned with it since we strive to be practical and as ecofriendly as we can. You will probably find us shopping most at the new organic kids store Bebop Baby Shop in Essex Junction and at the Hempest in Burlington. Moving away from an area that is overly worried about it will be refreshing for us. People here have gotten killed of fancy shoes, purses, cars, because those who are poor can not afford to keep up with what the wealthy can afford. Those who are not so drastic still get very upset and hurt by feeling like they are less of a person because they can not afford to buy designer clothes for themselves or their kids. The children are even more upset and affected by these things. For us lack of fashion is a plus.

6. Airport prices, this really depends on where you are flying. Not so much as a local issue but more of a size of the airport issue. Because the airport is not huge not ever airline goes in and out of the airport. It is not a "hub" airport and if you are used to using a discount airline like Southwest that runs specials all the time to "hot" spots then it may be an adjustment to be paying more of a standard rate. We have been looking a lot into this because we will be moving far away from all our family and would be needing to fly maybe once or twice a year.

7. Quaint, when I think of quaint I think rural. Burlington is not rural but is very close to areas that are.

[vermont08]

Sorry for all the type o's in my last post. Serves me right for not reading it over first. lol

Originally Posted by vermont08

Ok here is one "out of towners" take on some of the points Grysbas44 has made. We live right now about 20 min outside of Baltimore MD if you want an idea of where I am coming from. We made our first trip to Burlington in late June. We are moving to Vermont no latter then March/April.

1. Homeless people, well I can say that during our trip we saw 2 homeless people and that was with us driving all over town during a warm late June good weather weekend. Both these people were outside of town not near Church St.

2. Graffiti, We did notice some in the old north end. Nothing like hear by any means but I was however shocked that there was some. This has been in the news and the local police have been taking stronger actions to prevent it. Also from what I have researched it is not gang related and was done by young teens being silly.

3. Traffic, We drove thru downtown, the old and new north end and then out by the airport area from 4:30pm - 6pm on a Friday to get an idea....and well if you think there is a traffic problem I am not really sure what to say. Other then as someone who has lived in 5 states over the last 10 years (MD, PA, TX, FL, CA) in major cities it was a dream. The other drivers are very respectful, not rushed, and do not have road rage. Also they let you turn left at traffic lights. They actually stop for those walking and watch out for children and dogs who may run into the road. You do not find this everywhere. Driving was actually a joy, we did have to stop a lot when driving near Church St on Sat. and Sun. but nothing horrid. Also the town is very walk and bike friendly and we felt very sake walking with our two toddlers in the downtown area and Church St. because of how safe people drive. This is actually one of the top ten reasons for us moving to the area.

4. Culture, again this is one of are top 10 reasons for moving to the area. Now culture is however very personal. What we are looking for as a young and still hip (we like to think anyhow) family there are great things to see and do. Lots of local festivals and events. But we we consider fun as a what people term as "crunchy" "econuts" who are looking for a more well balanced life might be very different then what other people are looking for.

5. Fashion, hum well we are not so much as concerned with it since we strive to be practical and as ecofriendly as we can. You will probably find us shopping most at the new organic kids store Bebop Baby Shop in Essex Junction and at the Hempest in Burlington. Moving away from an area that is overly worried about it will be refreshing for us. People here have gotten killed of fancy shoes, purses, cars, because those who are poor can not afford to keep up with what the wealthy can afford. Those who are not so drastic still get very upset and hurt by feeling like they are less of a person because they can not afford to buy designer clothes for themselves or their kids. The children are even more upset and affected by these things. For us lack of fashion is a plus.

6. Airport prices, this really depends on where you are flying. Not so much as a local issue but more of a size of the airport issue. Because the airport is not huge not ever airline goes in and out of the airport. It is not a "hub" airport and if you are used to using a discount airline like Southwest that runs specials all the time to "hot" spots then it may be an adjustment to be paying more of a standard rate. We have been looking a lot into this because we will be moving far away from all our family and would be needing to fly maybe once or twice a year.

7. Quaint, when I think of quaint I think rural. Burlington is not rural but is very close to areas that are.

[flu189]

Some observations from the above post. Yes, traffic here is virtually a non issue. The only delays I have experienced which caused a real delay had to deal with lane closures due to construction or an accident, and even with that the delay was minor. The only caution as a driver here involves what I can only describe as a virtual death wish by pedestrians who will step out into traffic without even looking to see if the driver of an approaching vehicle has noticed them. With the amount of drivers on the roads even here who are not attentive it is pretty stupid to risk getting killed or maimed just because you have the "right-of-way." As far as airline flights go Burlington is expensive, but the other option with better fares is out of Manchester, NH (MHT) which has seen considerable expansion over the last decade. I still remember flying out of there in the early 90's when it was stil called Grenier Field and only had the old terminal building. Now there is plenty of parking and it is an easy trip down there if it means saving a few hundred dollars. As far as moving into certain neighborhoods is concerned I think that most people can get a pretty good gut feeling by checking things out on a visit. Personally I would avoid a few areas just because I don't feel like dealing with noise, disturbances, and other crimes which are more prevalent in certain blocks. Despite the housing market being traditionally pretty tight up here with time and looking you can find satisfactory areas to set up your first residence here.

[Grybas44]

Flu189. Good post. I agree about the virtual death wish. The other trouble that I have run into (no pun intended) is when people who come from the rural areas experience any kind of traffic, they are a bit overwhelmed and drive terribly. Also when the students are in town, they live with the invincibility of youth along with their inexperience when it comes to driving.

[ian_m]

Originally Posted by Grybas44

Ian. Wow, what a great sounding place. Dynamic, creative, progressive...so many buzz words. I am confused though. It seems you have failed to mention how new businesses/industries are able to open and if they do open they have trouble sustaining themselves in the area. It is terrible that the colleges and universities in Vermont more or less bribe students by giving tuition breaks to those who stay in the state. The students need to promise to remain in the state for an extened period of time if they want to keep these tuition breaks. But Vermont doesn't promise there to be jobs for these students. Why are there no jobs? No business owners want to come here. Why do they not want to come here? Vermont does not wlecome them, because they do not want them to disrupt the hometown feel. Who makes the decisions to not allow these businesses? The progressive, dynamic, creative politicians. Rebuilding an old structure is nice, I agree. Preserving the past is very important . However, I am missing how doing this makes the economy more solid. When you run out of old houses, then what do you do? The traffic here is a joke. I have lived in Arlington, San Diego and other big cities. They find ways to ease their congestion. Why not here? Well, once again the progressive, dynamic, creative people wouldn't want to disrupt their lives. Ian, every part in the last paragraph you wrote told about things one can do in their free time. And I have done all of them. However everything in the last paragraph involved leaving Burlington for other areas. All the renovated houses in Burlington can't sustain an economy if the people in them are taking their money elsewhere. Right?

Texas loves you

[oktaren]

Originally Posted by Grybas44

The best thing to ever come out of Burlington is Interstate 89. The sad thing about the city (and the state) is that at one time the people were truly a proud group, the economy was booming and there was so much potential. However at the turn of the century (from 19th to 20th) this potential with many other things left. Many people will probably disagree with what I am going to say. This is your opinion. As the following is my opinion.

Burlington could be a great little town. However, Church St. has an over abundance of homeless people, drug users and pushers, and people pushing a socialist agenda. It's true. On any given day during the warmer months you will find people (mostly college students)with the hammer and sickle splayed on their bodies as they hand out pamphlets praising the socialist party's highpoints. This type of individual expression would never be tolerated in a truly socialist society.

Driving in downtown is a joke. I know that state rules allow pedestrians the right-of-way, but on busy days there are such problems getting past Church St. Also a lack of advanced green arrows create large back-ups during the peak hours of the day. With the growing population also comes a reduction in the amount of parking.

There is very little to no culture in the area. One is hard pressed to find any consistency in cultural events. People will say that there is a music scene here, and at times there is, especially at places like Nectars, Red Square or Higher Ground. But there is normally just one type of music. If you are looking for jazz, classical or blues, there is such a lack of events. And as far as big names in any type of music, you will never find them coming to Burlington. If you take away the bars at night, this town might as well roll up it's sidewalks, because there is not much to do once the sun goes down.

If you are looking for fashion, this is not the place to look. The standard Burlington uniform is very utilitarian. Fashion is very hard to find here. Out-of -towners bring it in. But, they are out-of-towners, so they take the fashion with them when they leave. The stores here are very cookie cutter, and those with a taste of fashion often have little to offer.

The airport is very nice, however it is rated as one of the most expensive airports in the country to fly in and out of. It ranks higher than JFK and San Diego!!! During busy periods the parking ramp will fill up without there being any extra parking within walking distance. This is especially bothersome during the Christmas season with all of the snow and the cold weather.

One of the words that often goes with Burlington is quaint. If people took time to read the definition of this word they would find it's synonyms are odd and strange. It can also mean marked with beauty and elegance. Burlington...odd and strange?...yes. Beautiful and elegant?...no. Nice place to visit?...yes. Nice place to live?...If your only choice is Bosnia, yes. Otherwise keep looking for other places to live.

Wow, sounds like paradise!!!

[oktaren]

Originally Posted by Grybas44

Ian. Wow, what a great sounding place. Dynamic, creative, progressive...so many buzz words. I am confused though. It seems you have failed to mention how new businesses/industries are able to open and if they do open they have trouble sustaining themselves in the area. It is terrible that the colleges and universities in Vermont more or less bribe students by giving tuition breaks to those who stay in the state. The students need to promise to remain in the state for an extened period of time if they want to keep these tuition breaks. But Vermont doesn't promise there to be jobs for these students. Why are there no jobs? No business owners want to come here. Why do they not want to come here? Vermont does not wlecome them, because they do not want them to disrupt the hometown feel. Who makes the decisions to not allow these businesses? The progressive, dynamic, creative politicians. Rebuilding an old structure is nice, I agree. Preserving the past is very important . However, I am missing how doing this makes the economy more solid. When you run out of old houses, then what do you do? The traffic here is a joke. I have lived in Arlington, San Diego and other big cities. They find ways to ease their congestion. Why not here? Well, once again the progressive, dynamic, creative people wouldn't want to disrupt their lives. Ian, every part in the last paragraph you wrote told about things one can do in their free time. And I have done all of them. However everything in the last paragraph involved leaving Burlington for other areas. All the renovated houses in Burlington can't sustain an economy if the people in them are taking their money elsewhere. Right?

You need to check out western new york or pennsylvania if you think that is bad!