[scoobydew]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Yeah, never seen this data.

What's the data the opinion would be matched against?

[cgregor]

Well, yes; there are opinions and there are facts. For someone whose annual income is $80,000+, one's opinions about quality of life where one has lived would be quite different from someone else making $40,000 who has lived in the very same locales at the very same times as the former.

I have done considerable research on the comparison of quality of life in Vermont and in Texas, and except for breast cancer survival rates and housing as a percentage of income, Texas-- even though it has the world's twelfth largest economy-- doesn't even make the top quartile in over 14 indicators, while Vermont doesn't leave the top quartile for those same ones. However, a person making $100,000 in Texas would not even notice that.

I respect your opinions; I just want to know if they are based on facts or feelings.

[scoobydew]

Originally Posted by cgregor

Well, yes; there are opinions and there are facts. For someone whose annual income is $80,000+, one's opinions about quality of life where one has lived would be quite different from someone else making $40,000 who has lived in the very same locales at the very same times as the former.

I have done considerable research on the comparison of quality of life in Vermont and in Texas, and except for breast cancer survival rates and housing as a percentage of income, Texas-- even though it has the world's twelfth largest economy-- doesn't even make the top quartile in over 14 indicators, while Vermont doesn't leave the top quartile for those same ones. However, a person making $100,000 in Texas would not even notice that.

I respect your opinions; I just want to know if they are based on facts or feelings.

That would depend on the facts as applied to YOUR values, or the facts as applied to someone else's.


A couple of other facts to consider: 1) I wouldn't choose to live in the south based on MY values and MY overall quality of life benchmarks, however the person to whom I was responding MAY based on HER overall quality of life balance. 2) Texas doesn't represent the entire south.

[scoobydew]

Originally Posted by cgregor

I respect your opinions; I just want to know if they are based on facts or feelings.

My opinions, just like your opinions, are based on fact along with my own personal perspective and life experiences.

[Employable]

OP update:
Four months later, no posts. Joined CD, took some jabs, left this parting shot and disappeared.

I don't know whether it's because of the vitriol or out of sympathy, but I found this in the OP's profile and had to laugh:

MN1031 has not made any friends yet

[CatwomanofV]

I have lived in many, many places-8 different states, 9 if you count Greece, 10 if you count the "State of Confusion."

Out of all the places I have lived, Vermont is by far the best-for me, that is. I totally understand that Vermont isn't for everyone-which is a good thing otherwise it would be too urban for me. Yes, Vermont has its problems-it is a poor state, high taxes, and of course our notorious winters. But, it has a low crime rate. Yeah, drug use is on the rise but it is on the rise EVERYWHERE! When I lived in Texas, I had all my doors & windows locked, an alarm system on my house and STILL slept with a knife next to my bed (I am not a gun person). I did not feel safe there. Here, I don't even lock my doors.

When I first moved here, what really struck me was when I walked down the street and passed someone, they said, "Hi." In Texas, you didn't even dare make eye contact for fear that someone will pull out a gun or knife. Another thing that floored me when I first moved here, was how accessible our elective officials are. I have met many of our elective officials-some more then others. Every time we see Bernie, he refers to my husband by his name-not, "What's your name?" One time when Howard Dean was gov., my husband wrote his office for something and he responded in a typical fashion but at the end of the letter he hand wrote (which was hard to read because he is a doctor lol) a note saying how he has read my husband's letters to the editor. In larger states, you don't get that.

As far as the winters go, give me a nor'easter any day over a tornado. I know we get tornadoes here but they are usually small unlike the ones when I was living in Oklahoma or Texas. Even in Massachusetts, there is a mini Tornado Alley (another state I lived in). A couple of my sisters live in Connecticut and they get more snow than we do. A few years ago they got a BIG snow storm on Halloween-we didn't. Also, look at Boston this winter. We didn't get anything like that. And we rarely get hit with hurricanes. I know we got hit with Irene in 2011 but Irene was a tropical storm at the time and it was flooding-not wind damage.

It is also great for outdoor activities-skiing, hunting, fishing, sailing, hiking, biking, etc. You can't beat the produce.



Cat

[Pincho-toot]

You must have never been south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Winters are not "horrible" in Vermont, they simply exist. Shocking, but not everywhere has California weather or an extended autumn that lasts until February. Vermont actually has the 4 seasons timed as close as they can to the calendar. Want hard winter? Go to Alaska. Of course it's rural, and it should stay like that. Last thing Vermont needs is a big city where the tall trees belong. Boston is great, but it belongs in eastern Massachusetts, not in Vermont's woodlands. It's not diverse? Well, then tell more minorities to move there! :P It's not the people of Vermont's fault that most people there are white. They aren't banning minorities. Blacks and Asians are welcome to move there. Vermont was also one of the first states to progress into the idea of marriage equality, so you can't call it a backwards state, when here in the fine state of Texas, gay marriage is still out of reach as far as I know. Seriously, I'd so much rather be in the rural north than the rural south. Complain about the winters up there? The summers here will make you wanna sleep in a walk in freezer! Though I let them be hot, because it's nice to experience all kinds of weather even the ones you don't like. Wanna feel out of place as a minority? Race and religious minorities feel more out of place down south than anywhere near Vermont.

[Sierrajeff]

Thanks everyone for re-animating this post and sending the words "Vermont: the most horrible place" back to the top of the posts.

(And that's sarcasm, in case it's not clear.)

[Employable]

Originally Posted by Sierrajeff

Thanks everyone for re-animating this post and sending the words "Vermont: the most horrible place" back to the top of the posts.
(And that's sarcasm, in case it's not clear.)

I've been on the Vermont forum since this morning. It's been a very educational day.

I saw this thread and immediately clicked on it. Not because I was looking for a biased flood of angst, but because I knew I'd get both sides of the story. I do feel slightly guilty for pushing that subject line to the top of the forum. Maybe we can get Vter to change it to "Vermont: One Person Didn't Like It."

Look, I get the cold-weather thing. I broke my personal record this winter by walking around when it was 4 degrees outside. The surprising part was that it didn't bother me too much. All I did was buy the right clothing. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who grew up in L.A. If you told me in college that I'd be living where it approaches zero, I wouldn't have believed it.

I still have a lot to learn about specific regions of the state and need to wrap my brain around the property tax rates. The most interesting nugget I got so far was the "four in the ground" concept. Pretty entertaining.

[sheena12]

I wouldn't worry about "the bad press". Anyone who has ever been to Vermont and is not overwhelmed by it amazing beauty and Norman Rockwellesque charm - is strange.

I am so happy that my son goes to college there - I get at least three mini-Vermont vacations per year.

Besides the incredible natural beauty, there is history, out door activities for every taste, art and antiquing, fine food and drink - from homey New England fare to Asian fusion and anything else you can think of.

If I could have a little cabin in the woods - Vermont would be my place.

PS Is Norman Rockwell from Vermont???