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Old 02-04-2015, 01:37 PM
 
150 posts, read 177,558 times
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Hey Outdoor NE:
My mother and brother live in the W-S area of NC. I've been to visit quite a few times, at all times of the year, and would suggest you take a look. It seems to offer a lot, and I've found that the heat and humidity aren't all that bad. I spent a week with dear mother in August and rode my mt bike (some nice singletrack there) every day. Please note that I would not have gone out on my road bike after about 10 a.m. though--too hot. You'll find the cost of living dwarfs that of VT (probably CT as well). RE: Asheville, my wife and I spent 5-6 days there, thinking it would be a great place to live, and may well would have been. Housing is considerably more expensive there though, and the job market is tight. Also, they get a longish winter. It's worth a visit though because it has a really cool vibe--king of like Burlington, VT without the lake.

Keep looking. You'll find the place.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:12 PM
 
56 posts, read 64,566 times
Reputation: 56
I'm from NC, and like just about any place (except for TX and FL as far as I'm concerned), it can seem like an awfully good move just from a few visits. What is it about VT that you like and want? I might be able to tell you if/where you could find it in NC.

Asheville is expensive as hell and hard to find a job unless you're in the service industry, and Winston gets mighty Southern real quick, even for me. The heat is soul-crushing in the South, and getting worse. It starts in May and doesn't let up until October. All of your gardening needs to get done by 9am so you can get out of the heat. Sure, the mountains are a bit better, but there are a host of issues there, too. No place is perfect, but we are itching like mad to get out of here.
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
32 posts, read 30,169 times
Reputation: 35
cgregor,

Thanks for the valuable tip! I have lived in Florida and have experienced that heat andhumidity. Never again.

quote=cgregor;38275488]I have a sister living in the Asheville area. When she and her husband gotweary of the
Florida heat and humidity, they went house-hunting there, and realtors advised them,"You want something above 3,500 feet." So they got a place in thewestern part of the state, about 35 miles from Asheville, 3,600 feet, and she's been happywith it for the last twenty years. Part of the contentment also lies in havinga fair number of other transplants around her.[/quote]



Sovertennis - Thank you for your experience and I may just take a trip thisyear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sovertennis View Post
Hey Outdoor NE
Quote:
Originally Posted by sovertennis View Post

My mother and brother live in the W-S area of NC. I've been to visit quite afew times, at all times of the year, and would suggest you take a look. Itseems to offer a lot, and I've found that the heat and humidity aren't all thatbad. I spent a week with dear mother in August and rode my mt bike (some nicesingletrack there) every day. Please note that I would not have gone out on myroad bike after about 10 a.m. though--too hot. You'll find the cost of livingdwarfs that of VT (probably CT as well). RE: Asheville, my wife and I spent 5-6 daysthere, thinking it would be a great place to live, and may well would havebeen. Housing is considerably more expensive there though, and the job marketis tight. Also, they get a longish winter. It's worth a visit though because ithas a really cool vibe--king of like Burlington without the lake.

Keep looking. You'll find the place.

Why are you itching to get out? Jobs? Heat? What are the host of issues yourefer to? I like Vermont for its seasons (Mostly Spring, Summer and Fall lol), I have family there, andfor me, there are some decent job opportunities which I can also find in NC. Iwould like to live more out in a rural area. (I live in a city of 60,000 +++)Have a little bit bigger of a lot (Maybe an acre or two). I enjoy being out inthe canoe, (Lake and brook) fishing, hiking,in general the outdoors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cackalassie View Post
I'm from NC, and like just about any place(except for TX and FL as far as I'm concerned), it can seem like an awfullygood move just from a few visits. What is it about VT that you like and want? Imight be able to tell you if/where you could find it in NC. [/SIZE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cackalassie View Post
Asheville is expensive as hell and hard to find a job unless you're in the serviceindustry, and Winston gets mighty Southern real quick, even for me. The heat issoul-crushing in the South, and getting worse. It starts in May and doesn't letup until October. All of your gardening needs to get done by 9am so you can getout of the heat. Sure, the mountains are a bit better, but there are a host ofissues there, too. No place is perfect, but we are itching like mad to get outof here.
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Old 02-26-2015, 02:29 PM
 
56 posts, read 64,566 times
Reputation: 56
We are leaving NC because of the heat, number one. I cannot describe how soul-crushing it is. Now in the mountains, where I am from, it is a bit different, but once you come down from the Divide, you have very different summers. I love to garden, but by 9am you've got to skedaddle back inside because the heat and humidity are so awful. Folks talk about the winters in VT being bad. Granted, I've only visited during the winter, never lived there, but being able to put on some snowshoes and walk around or some xcountry skiing in all that beauty. Well, that is bliss, to me, especially because then you have such a divine summer in VT. But down here I am inside during the summer. Occasionally we will go to a pool, but I prefer to spend my time in nature or in the garden, not at a pool (and still in the intense sun). Swimming holes are murky and snake-filled (though not in the mtns). On the flip side, the winters here are so mild: 45 and sunny, I just about lose my mind. I never feel that I get a good solid winter, and just as I start lamenting that, the heat comes. Spring is short, and by May it is HOT and it remains that way sometimes until November, certainly until Oct. December is very mild - 50s, then Jan/Feb 40s, then March/April you have a bit of spring before the inferno starts again.

I think you also have to embrace sprawl in NC. It is out of control. Yes, you will find jobs here, but there is absolutely no common sense when it comes to sprawl and growth, and NC has sold its soul to major business at the expense of its people. Have you looked at our politics? Whether you are Dem, Lib, or Repub, our government is a mindless mess, anyone who doesn't see that beyond party politics has their head in the sand. I can't even talk about the education and environmental choices of these people in Raleigh. Dan River, anyone?

There are a lot of lovely towns in NC, and there is a lot to love about the state. But the population has exploded, and self-sustaining towns and farms have given way to the world and culture of WalMart, whether there is one or not. I think there can be a good balance when it comes to growth, but overall NC doesn't have it. My own town/farming community - while not well-off - was prospering. WalMart decimated it. Fifteen years later, it is a ghost town. People I grew up with are now unhealthy and either unemployed or are working for a pittance at WalMart or Hardees, barely getting by, but their lives were promised to better with the WalMart. Their quality of life has been dramatically reduced, and the community is gone. Sure, folks are there, but the foundation of community is a brittle skeleton. Before we all relied on each other, now they all rely on The Man, in whatever form it embodies. I don't go home anymore.

Of course, the mountains have better weather. A tiny bit more winter and a cooler summer (still humid and hot). But there are no jobs unless you are in the medical or service industries, retired, or self-employed. A'ville is expensive, you will have to go out to get something affordable that isn't a heap. A'ville has been compared to Burlington a lot, so if you don't like Burlington.... You've got Asheville and you've got Boone. There are a few towns scattered here and there: Brevard, H'ville, Black Mtn, etc. that will give you that feel-good mountain vibe people come for: a brewery here, gallery there, but beyond that you are truly in the mountains. We tend to be overwhelmingly conservative, religious, and uneducated, even beyond the wilds of NE standards. We eat squirrels and muskrats. There are bathtubs, toilets, and 60yo pickup trucks on cinderblocks in our front yards. If scrap metal were gold, we'd have the highest concentration of millionaires anywhere. I know y'all have all that, too, but there is a degree to everything. They are good, solid people, but scare most folks from the North who tend to be the opposite of all those things. Though I think true mountain culture is gone, and that is a sad thing to me, though likely makes many transplants happy. And they are real mountains, sure - not to someone from the Rockies, but compared to New England they are mountains. They are high and twisty, and it can take you forever to go a crow's mile.

Southerners are friendly or fake, depends on your perspective. Hospitality is an age-old tradition. It is drummed into us from the time we are wee to be friendly and polite to people. That comes off fake to a lot of non-Southerners, especially because gossip is revered almost as much as Jesus and bacon fat, but there is a warmth and conviviality in the South that I have yet to find elsewhere. Though if we say "bless your heart," you have been thoroughly insulted. Southerners are also flirts, it isn't intended to be sexual, but seems to confuse a lot of non-Southerners. There is an Old Guard to the South, too. Just look through the pages of Garden&Gun or Southern Accents, and you'll get what I mean. Though there is more of that in SC than NC. And then there is race. And then there are jobs. Both are very complicated.

With the exception of A'ville and its nearby towns, Charlotte, Raleigh (Triangle area), Wilmington, and to a certain extent, Greensboro and Winston, folks are religious and conservative. When I say conservative, I mean it in a different context than up in NE. And when I say religious, I mean it in a WHOLE other context. Within those cities you will find most people from other regions or other larger Southern cities, and you will not feel as much that you are in "the South."

I will miss the food, the beach, the spring, the vernacular. But with the exception of a few things, NC is just any other state. Every town looks the same to me now, maybe because I knew them when. The quirks and individuality of NC is gone, obviously there are hordes of folks who feel differently, most of them aren't from NC or grew up in the larger towns/cities. What I love about VT are the farms, the communities, live and let live mentality, the can-do/independent attitude, seeing the stars again, the seasons, clean water, and feeling connected to the land. There is a sense of place to VT that I haven't experienced in NC in many years.

'Course, there are native VTers that feel exactly about their state as I do about NC. What they knew is gone. The grass is never greener, as they say. But at least up north there is snow and syrup aplenty. Priorities, you know.
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Old 03-05-2015, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Aiken, SC
35 posts, read 33,857 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cackalassie View Post
We are leaving NC because of the heat, number one. I cannot describe how soul-crushing it is. Now in the mountains, where I am from, it is a bit different, but once you come down from the Divide, you have very different summers. I love to garden, but by 9am you've got to skedaddle back inside because the heat and humidity are so awful. Folks talk about the winters in VT being bad. Granted, I've only visited during the winter, never lived there, but being able to put on some snowshoes and walk around or some xcountry skiing in all that beauty. Well, that is bliss, to me, especially because then you have such a divine summer in VT. But down here I am inside during the summer. Occasionally we will go to a pool, but I prefer to spend my time in nature or in the garden, not at a pool (and still in the intense sun). Swimming holes are murky and snake-filled (though not in the mtns). On the flip side, the winters here are so mild: 45 and sunny, I just about lose my mind. I never feel that I get a good solid winter, and just as I start lamenting that, the heat comes. Spring is short, and by May it is HOT and it remains that way sometimes until November, certainly until Oct. December is very mild - 50s, then Jan/Feb 40s, then March/April you have a bit of spring before the inferno starts again.

I think you also have to embrace sprawl in NC. It is out of control. Yes, you will find jobs here, but there is absolutely no common sense when it comes to sprawl and growth, and NC has sold its soul to major business at the expense of its people. Have you looked at our politics? Whether you are Dem, Lib, or Repub, our government is a mindless mess, anyone who doesn't see that beyond party politics has their head in the sand. I can't even talk about the education and environmental choices of these people in Raleigh. Dan River, anyone?

There are a lot of lovely towns in NC, and there is a lot to love about the state. But the population has exploded, and self-sustaining towns and farms have given way to the world and culture of WalMart, whether there is one or not. I think there can be a good balance when it comes to growth, but overall NC doesn't have it. My own town/farming community - while not well-off - was prospering. WalMart decimated it. Fifteen years later, it is a ghost town. People I grew up with are now unhealthy and either unemployed or are working for a pittance at WalMart or Hardees, barely getting by, but their lives were promised to better with the WalMart. Their quality of life has been dramatically reduced, and the community is gone. Sure, folks are there, but the foundation of community is a brittle skeleton. Before we all relied on each other, now they all rely on The Man, in whatever form it embodies. I don't go home anymore.

Of course, the mountains have better weather. A tiny bit more winter and a cooler summer (still humid and hot). But there are no jobs unless you are in the medical or service industries, retired, or self-employed. A'ville is expensive, you will have to go out to get something affordable that isn't a heap. A'ville has been compared to Burlington a lot, so if you don't like Burlington.... You've got Asheville and you've got Boone. There are a few towns scattered here and there: Brevard, H'ville, Black Mtn, etc. that will give you that feel-good mountain vibe people come for: a brewery here, gallery there, but beyond that you are truly in the mountains. We tend to be overwhelmingly conservative, religious, and uneducated, even beyond the wilds of NE standards. We eat squirrels and muskrats. There are bathtubs, toilets, and 60yo pickup trucks on cinderblocks in our front yards. If scrap metal were gold, we'd have the highest concentration of millionaires anywhere. I know y'all have all that, too, but there is a degree to everything. They are good, solid people, but scare most folks from the North who tend to be the opposite of all those things. Though I think true mountain culture is gone, and that is a sad thing to me, though likely makes many transplants happy. And they are real mountains, sure - not to someone from the Rockies, but compared to New England they are mountains. They are high and twisty, and it can take you forever to go a crow's mile.

Southerners are friendly or fake, depends on your perspective. Hospitality is an age-old tradition. It is drummed into us from the time we are wee to be friendly and polite to people. That comes off fake to a lot of non-Southerners, especially because gossip is revered almost as much as Jesus and bacon fat, but there is a warmth and conviviality in the South that I have yet to find elsewhere. Though if we say "bless your heart," you have been thoroughly insulted. Southerners are also flirts, it isn't intended to be sexual, but seems to confuse a lot of non-Southerners. There is an Old Guard to the South, too. Just look through the pages of Garden&Gun or Southern Accents, and you'll get what I mean. Though there is more of that in SC than NC. And then there is race. And then there are jobs. Both are very complicated.

With the exception of A'ville and its nearby towns, Charlotte, Raleigh (Triangle area), Wilmington, and to a certain extent, Greensboro and Winston, folks are religious and conservative. When I say conservative, I mean it in a different context than up in NE. And when I say religious, I mean it in a WHOLE other context. Within those cities you will find most people from other regions or other larger Southern cities, and you will not feel as much that you are in "the South."

I will miss the food, the beach, the spring, the vernacular. But with the exception of a few things, NC is just any other state. Every town looks the same to me now, maybe because I knew them when. The quirks and individuality of NC is gone, obviously there are hordes of folks who feel differently, most of them aren't from NC or grew up in the larger towns/cities. What I love about VT are the farms, the communities, live and let live mentality, the can-do/independent attitude, seeing the stars again, the seasons, clean water, and feeling connected to the land. There is a sense of place to VT that I haven't experienced in NC in many years.

'Course, there are native VTers that feel exactly about their state as I do about NC. What they knew is gone. The grass is never greener, as they say. But at least up north there is snow and syrup aplenty. Priorities, you know.
Cackalassie, After 2-3 winters here in VT, you will find the winters just as soul-crushing as the heat
in NC. Maybe more so. Throw in the high taxes,high COL, and liberal democrat politicians who specialize
in picking your pocket for every left-wing, feel-good scheme they come up with, and you will be wishing
you were back down South! I've been dealing with it for 20+ years here,and I didn't come here by choice. The cold is such that you can basically forget about all those wonderful winter outdoor activities.
The summer, basically July and half of August,is nice, but it's gone before you know it. And then you're back in the deep freeze for another 6 months. Now that's soul-crushing.
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Old 03-05-2015, 02:29 PM
 
809 posts, read 678,415 times
Reputation: 1333
Au contraire, cackalassie!

Our coldest days are the days you own! You have the woods for the exclusive use of your own party, the roads used only by less happy mortals beetling from warm box to warm box; Nature, night and the lengthening dawns and dusks unfolding themselves to you, the amazed pedestrian, in their own time. You will test yourself against the drear and dark of Nature and be pleased to find you can accommodate it, endure it and in the end triumph over it. You will acquire the quintessential trait of "Vermonter" that many possess and none flaunts.

Or, to be more practical-- if it's cold, you can always move around to get warmer, but when it's hot, there's no way to keep still enough to cool off.
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Old 03-05-2015, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Az.
385 posts, read 517,509 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddyG62 View Post
Cackalassie, After 2-3 winters here in VT, you will find the winters just as soul-crushing as the heat
in NC. Maybe more so. Throw in the high taxes,high COL, and liberal democrat politicians who specialize
in picking your pocket for every left-wing, feel-good scheme they come up with, and you will be wishing
you were back down South! I've been dealing with it for 20+ years here,and I didn't come here by choice. The cold is such that you can basically forget about all those wonderful winter outdoor activities.
The summer, basically July and half of August,is nice, but it's gone before you know it. And then you're back in the deep freeze for another 6 months. Now that's soul-crushing.

not to forget mud season! Vt. is for a weekend getaway as evidenced by all the flatlanders that come every one.
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Old 03-05-2015, 03:59 PM
 
13,921 posts, read 7,416,674 times
Reputation: 25430
Rutland has no natural gas (another topic for another day). You heat with oil, propane, or (shudder) electric. A drafty old 2 bedroom apartment in Rutland is going to have some fierce utility bills in the winter. If you think $1000 for a 2 bedroom apartment is pricey, you're going to be setting the heat at 50 and wearing 8 layers of Polartec all winter. As somebody pointed out earlier, rental housing is expensive in Vermont because of high property taxes. Vermont has a state school tax and rental houses are taxed at a very high commercial property rate. That gets passed on to the tenants.
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Old 03-05-2015, 09:54 PM
 
1,083 posts, read 1,929,552 times
Reputation: 914
I left Vermont in May 1994. I would never, ever, ever, ever, go back. The state is a joke (and not a funny one).
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Vermont
1,018 posts, read 1,421,479 times
Reputation: 1994
Cackalassie,

Well written and very thought provoking. Every place is home to someone. For every person that loves a location, there's one who hates it. I love summers here, but hate the winters as I get older. This winter has been soul crushing. Shoveling, plowing, and bitter cold just has hung on for weeks. I retire in 4 years and would love spend summers in VT and winters down south.
Thanks for reminding me that you can't focus on the negatives all the time. Vt does have many positives too.
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