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Old 04-02-2015, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
5,941 posts, read 2,705,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krytoi View Post
Hi, I an a NY state resident and was up in VT skiing in Killington for the weekend. On the way from the mountain on Sunday, I was stopped by a cop, who said that I was driving over the posted speed limit of 35mph. I was shocked, considering I was driving maybe 40 mph..and in a line of people. Not to mention he was driving in the opposite direction of me, after which he decided to turn around and catch up to me a few blocks down, wait behind me at a red light to make a turn, and then pulled me promptly over. He took my license, didn't even check the registration and came back with a ticket of $172 and 3 points. What surprised me is that he just wrote "SPEEDING" on the ticket and didn't write the anything in the "Actual Speed" or the "Posted Speed" in the boxes on the ticket. Is this normal in VT? What evidence will he have if/when I fight the ticket....I think it'll be dismissed due to being incomplete. Can anybody shed some light on this?
If he was moving and turned to come after you, and you had other traffic around you, you can probably be confident he had you on Radar, and you will be in dashcam. Cops don't usually just stop a particular car out of a bunch if all where driving the speed limit. You can also bet there is a computer record of your speed in his car, and a photo. I am sure he has been to court more than once with people who claim not guilty, so there is some kind of proof someplace, even if you don't have it on your sheet, especially if its a computer generated sheet he gave you.
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
5,941 posts, read 2,705,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriz View Post
But, if others are going 45 and you're going 35, I don't think an argument could be made there as they are the ones breaking the law.


I tried the "keeping up with Traffic" thingy once. About 5 of us speeding and I got stopped. I told the cop if I was speeding so where the others. He smiled and said the difference between the others and me, was that he caught me.
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,889 posts, read 54,207,525 times
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"wouldn't not impeding the flow of traffic only be relevant if you were going the speed limit? Say, if the speed limit is 35 and everyone is going 35-40 and you're going 25, you're impeding the flow. But, if others are going 45 and you're going 35, I don't think an argument could be made there as they are the ones breaking the law."

I think a lot is based on something called "reasonable and safe" and how a judge would interpret the driver's actions in the exact situation.

"The law states that a motor vehicle shall be driven at all times so that it is under control. It must be driven at a speed that is reasonable considering the dangers that may exist on the road. At intersections, on curves, in heavy traffic, during bad weather, and when pedestrians or bicyclists are present, you must drive at a speed that is safe for the driving conditions. Many crashes are caused by driving too fast for conditions. Sometimes even 10 miles per hour can be an unsafe speed."

In general, reasonable and safe is also within the rules of the traffic control signs and signals, but in rare instances can trump those rules. I'll give an example.

You are driving down Blush Hill in Waterbury and unknown to you until you are committed, the road is ice covered under the snow. There is a traffic control signal at the base of the hill that demands a complete stop. Because of the ice and the slope, any attempt to come to a complete stop would absolutely result in the loss of control of the car and a skid or in the case of anti-lock braking a non-skid resulting in a stop in the middle of the intersection in the traffic passing on the busy road between Stowe and the interstate.

As the driver, you see a break in the traffic where you can cross the intersection safely by blowing the stop sign, thus preventing one or more T-bone accidents. You release the brakes and maintain the control of the car across the intersection, continuing down Stowe Street.

Is a traffic law broken? Yes - and no. The point is that the fixed traffic sign is UNreasonable for the precise conditions in the example. Preventing accidents is the primary purpose of traffic controls, and when following one puts you in conflict with safe and reasonable driving, safe and reasonable trumps. If you still don't agree - A kid takes a 40mph minimum sign and steals it, and replaces the "slow: school zone" sign with that sign. Is a driver going to be ticketed for ignoring a sign that asks him to drive unreasonably?

If you cannot slow in a controlled manner that will prevent any rear-ending, the sudden appearance of a reduced speed sign does not require a slamming on of the brakes so that you are at that speed within one foot of the sign. It does require that you do so prudently and as quickly as practical.

On the other side of the equation, if a line of cars is traveling at a speed above the speed limit, there is nothing that says an officer or two can't pull over the entire line of cars. Common sense would hope that if that wasn't possible the officers would target the worst offenders - however, that may not be possible.

I still point out that having and using a dash cam is one of the cheapest insurance policies you can ever buy. It will remind you to drive defensively, and create an unimpeachable record of events in any ticket or accident situation.
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Old 04-03-2015, 05:00 AM
 
221 posts, read 266,447 times
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lol...it sounds almost like that actually happened to you I go down Blush Hill from time to time so I know what you are talking about. Besides all that, that road is trashed!


However, I do believe that their main intention when stating "safe for conditions" means, even if the speed limit is 55 and you are going the speed limit but say there is a severe snow storm or some other environmental or road condition that makes that speed still too fast to be considered safe, a cop can still pull you over for not driving according to ROAD conditions. I don't know if it applies for an opposite example like you mentioned, but I am no expert. I would expect them to argue that you should have been driving much slower to start with so that you can stop your car on time.

Unless I am mistaken, there is not even a warning sign about a light down that hill is there? As far as I can remember. They should definitely put one.
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Old 04-03-2015, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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Oriz, yeah, I agree. FWIW Blush Hill used to be MUCH worse when they first were putting in the interstate. The hillside got minimally cut back and the last few feet almost felt like a ski slope. On bad days I would try to go down by the Miller's place in Colbyville instead (and try to avoid getting caught in snow-drifts).
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Old 04-03-2015, 06:44 PM
 
221 posts, read 266,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Oriz, yeah, I agree. FWIW Blush Hill used to be MUCH worse when they first were putting in the interstate. The hillside got minimally cut back and the last few feet almost felt like a ski slope. On bad days I would try to go down by the Miller's place in Colbyville instead (and try to avoid getting caught in snow-drifts).
I was actually there again today. I didn't anticipate that when I wrote that post. For some reason I always end up getting stuck behind school buses on this road though lol. And nope, no warning sign for the light!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff View Post
I remember when we moved back to New England after several years out west, the frequent changes in speed limits seemed bizarre. Then I learned that out west (at least, in California and Arizona) there are state laws that mandate that speed limits can' t change by more than 10 m.p.h. per zone boundary. And in CA the speed limits all end in "5", e.g., 25 m.p.h., 35 m.p.h., 45 m.p.h., 55 m.p.h.

So for instance they can't go from 50 m.p.h. to 35 m.p.h. at once, it has to step down. Nor do you get the bizarre thing where it's 35 m.p.h., and then suddenly another drop to 30 m.p.h. ... as though there's a material difference between 35 and 30, or 30 and 25....
I think in VT for the most part at least the places I drive in, with the exception of very few of them, there aren't any overly rapid changes. Another thing I like is when there is a warning sign first, that the speed limit is about to change. That is almost everywhere, too. Of course it didn't help me one time when we were rather new here and I was making my way from Ferrisburg to Shelburne. All the way it is 50 mph and then changes, gradually, to 35. It was night time, not too many cars or anything else going on so road conditions pretty much remained constant, and it was my first time on that road, I wasn't paying that much attention to the signs, and kept going 56. Ended up with a ticket for 21 over lol. Sounds alot worse than it actually was as I still don't think I was endangering anybody. It's a plenty wide and good road.

But since then I learned and watch signs like a hawk and keep it at 5-10 over. No other tickets since although in only 21 months that we've been here I have gotten pulled over 11 times(including that ticket). All those other times were for either verbal or written warnings for things such as headlights. Burlington police(twice), Shelburne(the ticket), Milton(twice), Trooper(twice), Sheriff Deputy, St Albans, Hinesburg, Williston...I think that's it. Needless to say by now I feel pretty comfortable about being pulled over lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I use, if possible, the cruise control to keep my speed up on the expressways (7 to 10 over posted) and down (at or a bit under) in the small towns. This has worked so far.
I cruise a TON as well. In fact, I wish in my car I could use it at speeds lower than 35 mph as I tend to use it every chance I get and not just only on the freeway. However, a bit under? If you are one of those who go at 30-35 when the limit is 40 or 45 when the limit is 50 and I'm behind you, dude, you drive me NUTS
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Old 04-03-2015, 07:29 PM
 
3,463 posts, read 4,544,435 times
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Vermont cops do what they want. I had a Rutland Sheriff pull me because he said my lights werent on when they should have been, then call one of his friends to put my car on a flatbed that was a block away from my house, drive to an ATM, pull out a few hundred dollars, than he dropped my car off at my house. He told me I was lucky I got the car back and he didnt "lose it for long time". I never paid the ticket because I felt the money he stole from me at the ATM was good enough nd we were moving in three months anyway . . . The ticket followed me through 2 more states 5 years later, and I had to pay it before Kentucky would register my car. Be very scared in small towns in VT. Just assume a cop is hiding somehwere, because they really are. Ditto what someone said about Woodstock. They hate NY'ers and conduct their affairs accordingly
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Old 04-03-2015, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,889 posts, read 54,207,525 times
Reputation: 30395
"But since then I learned and watch signs like a hawk and keep it at 5-10 over. No other tickets since although in only 21 months that we've been here I have gotten pulled over 11 times(including that ticket). All those other times were for either verbal or written warnings for things such as headlights. Burlington police(twice), Shelburne(the ticket), Milton(twice), Trooper(twice), Sheriff Deputy, St Albans, Hinesburg, Williston...I think that's it. Needless to say by now I feel pretty comfortable about being pulled over lol."

Have you considered installing a coffee machine and keeping a few donuts in your vehicle?

It is a different state since I left. I lived there for years and don't think I was ever was pulled over. However, one of my mantras was that if I was ever to get pulled over, it would be because I wasn't being aware enough and deserved it.
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Old 04-03-2015, 08:04 PM
 
221 posts, read 266,447 times
Reputation: 375
lol....donuts could definitely help get me out of trouble. Either that or it would offend the cop and put me in bigger trouble

In all honesty, I don't feel that 11 times is that much CONSIDERING the amount of time I spend on the road. I see many many cops daily. But I do think there are some things that are a little silly to waste my time and theirs on. Headlights or tail lights being one of them. But hey, whatever works.
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