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Old 05-25-2016, 04:15 PM
 
496 posts, read 462,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
No, extreme poverty is what you see in the southern Appalachians or Detroit, MI or Gary, Indiana. Vermont doesn't have that kind of poverty. And I disagree on the arts comment too. I mean have you ever heard of the Peacham music festival, the Marlboro Music Festival, the Fairbanks Museum in St Johnsbury and so forth? There's more going on in VT outside of Burlington than just coyotes howling in the woods.


Vermont has major economic issues (and the recent Stenger fraud announcement isn't helping) but there are far worse places to be in this country.
As I've stated, I've lived in VT my entire life. There IS extreme poverty here. You will find 3 and 4 house trailers backed into the woods together and that's how they live. Welfare is HUGE here. Lots and lots of people on public assistance.

We have a ton of cute villages, true, however there's a lot more poor people in houses with boarded up windows living on class 3 roads than there are people who live in these quaint villages.
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Old 05-26-2016, 05:33 PM
 
809 posts, read 991,512 times
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You can do some researching into demographic profiles of Vermont to get an idea of whether or not poverty is as great a problem as some people say. Last time I looked, median income was around $42,000 or so; it probably has changed. It's helpful also to know what the per capita income is (always higher than median, so misleading in that regard, but helpful in comparing Vermont with other states) and what aggregate income is by income group-- that gives you an idea of where all the dollars are hanging out. Here's one link for starts, but there are a lot more:

http://www.vtlmi.info/profile2015.pdf
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:54 PM
 
3,106 posts, read 1,752,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Fairwinds View Post
As I've stated, I've lived in VT my entire life. There IS extreme poverty here. You will find 3 and 4 house trailers backed into the woods together and that's how they live. Welfare is HUGE here. Lots and lots of people on public assistance.

We have a ton of cute villages, true, however there's a lot more poor people in houses with boarded up windows living on class 3 roads than there are people who live in these quaint villages.
As was stated by artichomesteader, the rural poverty in VT is nothing compared to the kind of poverty you see in Appalachia or the Deep South or in certain cities. What keeps the poor in VT somewhat better off is the generous entitlements compared to certain other States and the fact that the countryside has plenty of wealthy folks too that pump a lot of money into local economies.
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Old 05-28-2016, 02:32 PM
 
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There is rural poverty in Vermont. Perhaps the State programs are more developed now, but I volunteered part-time for VISTA in Bennington c. 1970, and the children were hungry. The parents didn't like the child-centered VISTA program because they said it was "spoiling" their kids. They were probably right to be concerned with how the program when it was withdrawn (which it soon was) would have raised the childrens' expectations. If Vermont does better with these kids (who were already affected by the loss of various factories in the areas and their parents' unemployment), I love the state even more than I did back then.

A bit later I worked with kids in the South Bronx and urban poverty definitely _looks_ different from rural poverty--but both stunt and destroy potential. The South Bronx kids were wonderful, though they lived with daily gunfire in the background. The Bennington kids were wonderful though they had no future, with the various local factories all laid off or closing.

Who has ever met a kid who wasn't potentially brilliant?

I wouldn't say rural poverty was "nothing" compared to urban poverty back then--it was essentially the same though the rural type was more hidden. I encountered drug-addicted children in both groups. (Family members did this to keep the kids quieter or so I heard.)

I do hope that it is better in VT now. I took photos of those kids--they were beautiful. I don't know if any made it into later adulthood.

Last edited by ladyalicemore; 05-28-2016 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 05-29-2016, 07:42 AM
 
24,509 posts, read 17,967,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
As was stated by artichomesteader, the rural poverty in VT is nothing compared to the kind of poverty you see in Appalachia or the Deep South or in certain cities. What keeps the poor in VT somewhat better off is the generous entitlements compared to certain other States and the fact that the countryside has plenty of wealthy folks too that pump a lot of money into local economies.
Vermont is much more of a social democracy than the poor rural south. It's way easier to vote to support a generous safety net when everyone in the state shares the same race, language, and life experience. If the social benefits are going to people who don't speak your language and share your culture, or they're a completely different race and culture, you end up with the zero social services model of the south.

The big difference between Vermont and West Virginia is the tourist industry and inward migration of affluent refugees from the northeastern urban centers. It mostly only generates service sector jobs but that's better than a failed coal mining industry with no jobs at all.

The Vermont economic problem is the dire lack of non-service sector jobs. If it's not health care or a college, there aren't many non-service sector jobs. Chittenden County is frighteningly dependent on the former IBM fab plant. Employment is already down 40% from the peak and if the doors ever shut, the impact will cause big problems in the county that will ripple into the state budget. Vermont is a very desirable place to live and Chittenden County has enough critical mass that Vermont could attract more white collar facilities. White collar tech jobs create 10 other jobs in the local economy. It's pretty urgent that the region diversify away from that GlobalFoundries fab plant.
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Old 05-29-2016, 09:16 AM
 
150 posts, read 216,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I just returned from a three day awesome micro holiday in southern Vermont. We go there about four to five times a year. So, while I am no expert, having never lived in the state, for the past few years, owing to the fact that our son attends college there, we have spent quite a bit of time in the Southern part of the state - from Bennington to Brattleboro.

So...here is my take.

1.I don't see Bennington as terribly working class. They have a Walmart tucked away somewhere, but I think it is more of a typical American small town - there are people of a variety of socio-economic backgrounds. And they seem to peacefully coexist. There are a few churches and a Jewish synagogue. The presence of arty Bennington College - the once all women's college depicted in "Animal House" as the place where the boys went to meet Fawn Liebowitz, the student who died in a "kiln explosion" - and then used it as a ruse to pick up girls? Remember that? That was Bennington. There are a lot of artistic endeavors and businesses that are located in Bennington. I love the Bennington Pottery Company. I have heard nothing bad about the schools, and usually towns with a college have better than average public schools.

I am sure that there are some working class folks there, but that is not the first - or third vibe that I pick up there.

2.Wilmington has not been mentioned, and I am not sure why. It strikes me as a very pretty, pleasant, typically New England village, complete with period architecture -from colonial to Victorian. I can tell that there is a Gay presence there. The local Congregational Church prominently displays the rainbow flag. While I am not Gay myself, I take this as a good sign that residents of Wilmington are open minded, and would be generally accepting of transplants.

3.Brattleboro - I LOVE BRAT! I love every thing about it - from the thrift stores, to the bike riding and general walkability. Also quaint and visually beautiful, with lovely mountain views.
I am not, however, sure where locals live. I have seen the HS, since my daughter took her SATs there,since we were visiting our son for Parent's Weekend.It was a well maintained building, and the students seemed friendly, yetseious.

So that is my take! I hope it's helpful to someone!
I lived and worked in Bennington for 45 years before moving south last year. I raised my children there and was very active in the community. Your opinions are almost entirely absent of any facts about the population, work culture, economy and schools. There is very little variety socio-economically or racially. The professional class is small, and shrinking; quality blue collar jobs are few and the fixed income segment of the population is large and rising. The schools are mediocre, at best; controversy and dissatisfaction between residents and administrators is endless; Bennington College has no--none, zilch--influence on the quality of the public schools, and very little influence on the community in general, other than as an employer of mostly low wage jobs for locals. The Walmart is not "tucked away," it's on Rt 67 in a large shopping plaza.

It seems you saw Bennington (and Wilmington, and Bratt) as you wanted it to be in your imagination. When I was growing up up there, much of what you wrote was somewhat accurate, but it has not been that way for many years.
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Old 05-29-2016, 09:54 PM
 
25 posts, read 42,518 times
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The rose colored glasses are out in force. Vermont doesn't have alot of poverty???? To say this is simply irresponsible and dangerous
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:25 AM
 
809 posts, read 991,512 times
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I hope Vermonters re-dedicate themselves to dealing with poverty. We tend to ignore it because so much of it is white poverty and of course we "know" that that's the harmless sort. It's not.
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:50 PM
 
542 posts, read 693,307 times
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Regarding the comments on Vermont poverty. Of course there is poverty, there is in every state. The current poverty rate according to the last census ranks Vermont at #10 out of the 50 states. New Hampshire being the best at #1. Mississippi is last at #50. Actually I guess DC is lower but it is not a state. If you look at it from those stats we are a lot better then most places. It is true there will be more poverty in certain areas, the poster from the north east kingdom says there is extreme poverty. Absolutely. Let us keep in mind that there is literally nothing up that way except spectacular scenery. It is extreme rural. It is like taking a drive through the center of Maine and saying I wonder why it looks poor here? Well we just drove for an hour and never saw another human being....my point is if you live way out there it is often the nature of things to be short on income. I would also point out that just because you can often find Vermonters living in some crappy trailer, that does not make the situation unique. I will wager that the sea of crappy trailers and poverty around me in Florida is overall much worse then Vermont. I would not characterize Vermont as an impoverished state or chock-o-block full of desperately poor people. Instead I would say that many people struggle to make ends meet in a rural state that has not only lost its manufacturing like the rest of the USA but has also lost its agricultural base that at one time supported those that were not around the denser population areas. The things that I see that have supported the state and allowed it to remain viable is it's unspoiled natural beauty and progressive ideology. These two things have drawn a group of people into the state over the years that are typically well educated and often have some financial means to them. Now I know there are people who hate the liberalness of the state, but do not take that for granted. It is one of the few things we have over all other states. We are the anti-texas. Just look at what is going on with BERNIE. You may hate or disagree with him but when people who don't live here think of Vermont they think of these types of ideals, and solar power, and ben and jerrys, cows, cheese, hippies, universal health care (not but we wanted it), farmers markets, art & crafts, maple syrup, sking, organic food, no GMO, first gay marriage, progressive tax policies, etc, etc.....you see what we have, it is a unique state brand. I recall being in Georgia once and someone asked where I came from. I said Vermont. They replied "sorry to hear about that" ok I get it but I guess my line of thinking is there is a flip side to that. Now-a-days people move about the country freely. They don't stay in one place anymore. They think about where they might like to live, what might appeal to their lifestyle. If your a hardcore christian, a right to life person, like imposing the death penalty, anti-welfare, anti-goverment, pro big business, your not moving to Vermont, but if you hold opposite views to those our state brand is very strong and I am willing to bet that will only grow stronger as people shift locations in this information age. I don't know what the future of Vermont is. I don't think it will ever be blue collar manufacturing or agri-farms, but I do not see us lapsing into a poverty state some seem to imply. Economic and societal changes are happening quickly Vermont might just come out on top of things. Fingers crossed.
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Old 05-31-2016, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Venus
5,836 posts, read 5,222,758 times
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I used to run the local food shelf so I saw the face of poverty. There was a family who was living in their car, another guy said that he only ate every other day so his wife & kids could eat, and many, many stories that will break your heart.

The thing is about some parts of Vermont, poverty isn't exactly in your face like it is in other areas of the nation. According to Wikipedia (dependable source?-your call), 17% of the population in this small town with a totally population of under 3000, live below the poverty line.

The problem is there are not a lot of good paying jobs around.


Cat
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