Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
After reading literally hundreds of moving-to-Vermont posts, I’ve finally decided to write my own. Sorry for the novel… but after reading enough of these things you realize that the more information provided, the better feedback you’ll receive.
So, my husband and I have been interested in moving to Vermont for a few years. We spent 2 years living near Boulder, CO and really enjoyed our time there, but it wasn’t the right fit to settle down, and we missed the lushness of the east coast. So after our son was born we moved back home to Central PA. We are now expecting baby #2 this summer. We’ve taken two trips up to New England. We’ve visited the southern Maine coast, Portsmouth, NH, Keane, NH, Brattleboro, and briefly Bennington and Montpelier. Vermont was definitely the right fit, and we fell in love with the Brattleboro area and that’s where we’ve spent the most time. We are hoping to visit Middlebury, Burlington, and surrounding areas this spring.
We both have lived rurally in mountains of Central PA for 15+ years, as well as had a taste of the suburban metropolis that has overwhelmed this area. We love having room to breathe and ideally we would buy a place with 5-10 acres and have a small homestead. We’d love to live off-grid or at least low-impact. We are not opposed to commuting; it would be great to be within 20-30 minutes to a decently sized town (decent grocery store, cafe, a couple good restaurants, etc.), and maybe a little farther drive to a bigger town (museums, culture, art, nice restaurant selection etc). It seemed like if we lived near Brattleboro, we'd have to stay a bit closer in because the surrounding towns don't really have much at all for amenities.
My husband is self-employed. He is a farrier and has a pretty decent clientele of horses built up here in PA, but not enough to sustain us solely, and we know it will take a while to build up his business once we get up there. He’ll need some sort of other full time work secured before we move. I was working as a holistic health practitioner but will be staying home with the kids for hopefully the next several years.
We know we have to keep living expenses low in order to be able to afford this move. Central PA’s cost of living is lower, but to us it is just so not worth dealing with the negativity, ignorance, growing traffic and sprawl, etc. Watching the land I grew up on being developed everywhere I turn makes me sick to my stomach. I want to raise my kids around conscious people who value the environment, their health, their neighbors, etc. We want that slow, back to the land lifestyle. I have lived here in PA most of my life and have never fit in. We both can’t wait to be somewhere where people don’t either laugh or stare blankly when you mention that you compost or go to the farmer’s market. I have no fear of feeling isolated even in rural Vermont, because I’ve struggled my whole life to make real connection with people in Pennsylvania. When we first crossed over the VT border, I felt like I was “home” for the first time in my life.
Our plan is for my husband to find work and for us to move up there before the end of 2017. We’d rent for hopefully a year, and then buy a place once we’re settled on work/location.
So…
-I know comparing Burlington to Brattleboro is a bit of apples to oranges, but if anyone can give me an idea of how these places measure up, I'd love to hear they're similarities, differences, pros, & cons. Like I said, most of our time has been spent in and around Brattleboro, so that's kind of my gauge.
-Any insight on the surrounding areas of Burlington? What are some of the smaller towns 30-40 minutes away from the city like? Also, I've heard Burlington itself doesn't have a big "city" vibe. Is that true?
-How much does the weather change outside of the city/away from the lake? And how much worse are winters in Burlington area vs. Brattleboro?
-Renting…. Any resources for finding a rental appropriate for a family other than craigslist? Especially single family homes/rural rentals (we both hate apartment/townhouse living and want to avoid it if at all possible).
-Which area would be easier for us to find an affordable small piece of good land with a small home? (Burlington outskirts vs. around Brattleboro)
-What is the horse industry like up there? It would help us out tremendously if my husband could get his farrier business up and running quickly.
-Any tips for securing a job before our move would be helpful. My husband is currently working as an interior painter, and while he’s done well in the field it certainly isn’t he dream job. He’d be happy working in some sort of outdoor, farming, greenhouse, carpentry, etc. type job. He worked as a grower in the medical marijuana industry in CO and loved it, but we’re both pretty clueless on how to get into that field from out of state.
-How reasonable do our goals seem given that I’m staying at home with the kids and my husband is a low-income earner? We both have excellent credit, but we’re young and don’t have a very long credit history. He’s used to working 2 jobs and odd jobs on the side, and we live modestly. But economic security is a concern for us. We want to be able to provide a good life or our kids. We want to have animals, and eventually travel a little. We want the simple life but we don’t want to set ourselves up for struggle either.
Thanks for reading all of that and for any insight or advice!
I would doubt anyone could make a living shoeing horses and farriers I've known when I lived there did it as a hobby job. We lived there 20 years. Not an easy place to be on the lower side of income.
From your description, Brattleboro sounds like a place you'd be happy with. The town very much has its act together and is kind of an "in" place. I am not familiar with the farrier world but suspect the area around Middlebury might be a better bet. Also think about Woodstock and Manchester.
Lots and lots of horse farms in the Burlington to Middlebury corridor. This area is my favorite of Vermont. Close enough to Burlington to be able to commute for work, entertainment etc but far enough away that you can live a life in quiet and solitude.
-I know comparing Burlington to Brattleboro is a bit of apples to oranges, but if anyone can give me an idea of how these places measure up, I'd love to hear they're similarities, differences, pros, & cons. Like I said, most of our time has been spent in and around Brattleboro, so that's kind of my gauge.
-Any insight on the surrounding areas of Burlington? What are some of the smaller towns 30-40 minutes away from the city like? Also, I've heard Burlington itself doesn't have a big "city" vibe. Is that true?
Burlington is kind of a mini-Boulder. College town with a med school and university hospital. Church Street is like a mini-Pearl Street. It's not a city feel. Downtown Burlington feels like any college town Main Street. Williston Road and Shelburne Road are mall and big box store hell like anywhere else. The big difference between Burlington and Boulder is that Burlington has the lake and it's green. The weather is also more extreme. January can have a week+ of subzero. Summer can have a few weeks of 90+ and humid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by equisage
-How much does the weather change outside of the city/away from the lake? And how much worse are winters in Burlington area vs. Brattleboro?
Burlington will typically be 5+ degrees colder than Brattleboro in the winter. With the lake and generally flat country, it has much more wind unless you're sheltered by trees. Brattleboro gets rain in a lot of storms where Burlington sees snow. Neither see huge snowfall most years. The microclimate on the eastern slope of the Green Mountain spine gets the snow. The top of Mount Mansfield sees 300". Burlington gets 80" and has a nice view of snowy Mansfield. Brattleboro gets 55".
Quote:
Originally Posted by equisage
-Renting…. Any resources for finding a rental appropriate for a family other than craigslist? Especially single family homes/rural rentals (we both hate apartment/townhouse living and want to avoid it if at all possible).
Beware that the Vermont Act 68 state school tax taxes all rental property at the commercial rate. Any rental property in the state is paying at least a $20 mil rate. That gets passed onto tenants. Rents tend to be pretty expensive and the housing stock is largely older. I don't have advice on finding rental houses. Other than Craigslist, it's the local paper and realtors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by equisage
-Which area would be easier for us to find an affordable small piece of good land with a small home? (Burlington outskirts vs. around Brattleboro)
Ignoring the ski resort towns where anything within 15 to 20 minutes of the parking lot will be expensive, Burlington is the most expensive housing in the state. Brattleboro doesn't have much of a local economy so housing is cheaper. It's too far from the ski areas to attract much vacation home ownership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by equisage
-What is the horse industry like up there? It would help us out tremendously if my husband could get his farrier business up and running quickly.
It's a rural state very dependent on drive-to tourism from southern New England and metro-New York. There are lots of horses but they're spread out all over the state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by equisage
-Any tips for securing a job before our move would be helpful. My husband is currently working as an interior painter, and while he’s done well in the field it certainly isn’t he dream job. He’d be happy working in some sort of outdoor, farming, greenhouse, carpentry, etc. type job. He worked as a grower in the medical marijuana industry in CO and loved it, but we’re both pretty clueless on how to get into that field from out of state.
Any of the ski resort towns are begging for reliable trade people. A good interior painter / carpenter can get reliable work at pretty good rates forever in the shoulder seasons. Not so much in the winter during ski season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by equisage
-How reasonable do our goals seem given that I’m staying at home with the kids and my husband is a low-income earner? We both have excellent credit, but we’re young and don’t have a very long credit history. He’s used to working 2 jobs and odd jobs on the side, and we live modestly. But economic security is a concern for us. We want to be able to provide a good life or our kids. We want to have animals, and eventually travel a little. We want the simple life but we don’t want to set ourselves up for struggle either.
Your challenge is going to be the high cost of living. Housing is high. Taxes are high. Energy costs are high. Vermont has an extremely low unemployment rate. Anybody willing to work should be able to find things.
I actually think Brattleboro area would be a good fit for you. I live in newfane which is a little satellite town of Brattleboro as would be places like Putney, Vernon, Marlboro etc. We have a a small grocery store, building supply, farm stand. couple places to eat right near us but for everything else you go to Brattleboro. The lifestyle you aspire to is very much in place in this area of Vermont. I myself arrived in the 70's with the back to the land movement and built our homestead from scratch. This generation seems less interested in that scene but there are still people doing it often in more creative ways, mixing old ways and new technology. I am sorry I can't really speak to your questions about Burlington other then to tell you it is a much larger town then Brattleboro. My son went to college up there and it is a young vibrant town. In the summer the lake is wonderful, in the winter it is brutal with bone chilling winds. Anyway, I am not much help with the Burlington questions but you are not going to have problems finding work around Brattleboro. By that I mean you can come up and get a "job" immediately. It will probably pay about $10hr and will not be something you want to do but employment for the sake of employment is available immediately. Getting decent paying trade jobs like painting, carpentry are also available but may take just a bit longer to land. If you want to work on a farm I bet you can get that job in a day but those are going to be the worst paying jobs. I can point you to some places if you really want low paying agricultural work. Working as a Farrier may be possible. I know a friend who has horses and I was over there one day and a farrier came over. He did it full time, had a fairly extensive route he traveled and regular customers, so it is certainly possible but your going to have to build your own clientele. I live right across from this place: Winchester Stables – A premier full service equestrian facility a big horse farm, you might call them in regards to work. Rents in Brattleboro area are expensive, no doubt, they will be all over the state. Criags list, also real estate people here handle a lot of rentals especially around the ski area towns. Taxes are high but Vermont is generous to lower income people much of those will be offset. Energy costs are high, that is why you heat with wood. In terms of what you consider affordable for land, house? what figure are you talking about? Ok well I hope you find what your looking for, it sounds like Vermont is a good match for you, but I would caution that is is a much more rugged and hostile environment then PA. I have seen many people come and a year or two later simply leave as they are not up to the task of dealing with the weather and isolation. As I said I have been down your road, though awhile ago, if you have more specific questions about the area feel free to message me I will help if I can.
Hello, hope its okay to post this within this thread. I have similar lifestyle values as the original poster and am interested in the same towns...
I am an artist (Painter, designer, photographer), environmental educator and public school elementary art teacher in Portland Oregon- I am in my mid 50's and plan to work another 15 or so years in my field. I have worked in Waldorf education and organic gardening, fiber arts and as a designer and photographer. I would love to buy an affordable (under 200K) artisan-hand made house with about an 1/2 -2 acres of land near trails and community. Ideally would like to be near a yoga studio, meditation center, health food store.
Wondering if any of these Vermont towns would be a good fit for my wants and lifestyle values -thinking about Shelburne, Montpeiler, Middlebury, Woodstock, Putney, Brattelboro or maybe South Burlington too.
1. Does Brattleboro area have access to major hospitals and quality health care facilities? (just incase)
2. It seems people fly out of Boston- How does one get there, how long does it take and how does one get there? Are Burlington flights worth the extra money if living up there? What about Montreal flights? (I'll be visiting family in Michigan 2-3x year)
3. I see there is a health food co-op in Putney, does the store bring the community together through events? Are there other health food stores in ?
4. Is there a green movement in building affordable energy efficient housing in any of these towns mentioned above?
5. Lastly, Are Vermonters generally open to welcoming in outsiders and creating new friendships?
6. Do any of these towns seem more alternative and artsy over the others?
Thanks!
I could be wrong on this but I think teaching jobs are tough to come by in Vermont. Lots of overeducated people with masters degrees floating around looking for those positions. Now special ed, or para positions are pretty common I think but your going to be hungry on those wages. Selling various forms of art is a possibility, it must be viable as everyone is an artist here and many make there living in that field.
In terms of your towns, well probably any of them. I can't actually speak to all of them but Brattleboro has about the best food-coop in the world bar none. It also has the whole community of people that goes with that scene. There is also a waldorf school in town. Seems like every tiny town has at least one yoga studio I am sure brattleboro has a number of them to choose from. Putney is a small satellite town to Brattleboro. If you live in Putney you will be in Brat all the time. However Putney does have it's own food-coop smaller but nice. Also a great general store. I am sure yoga and all the meditation you could want are right in putney. They have an active little town and community. Old hippies and trust funders abound.
Brattleboro has a hospital and healthcare facilites. Your not going to have a bypass there or anything really serious, for that you go to mary hitchcock in hanover NH or Boston.
It is 3 hrs to boston from brattleboro probably same from burlington. You will fly out of burlington if you live there and if you are in brattleboro I usually fly out of hartford if flying to someplace like michigan
Lots of green movement stuff going on if your into that Certainly in southern VT and I am sure elsewhere. It's VT for godsake! I tell you one thing we have more solar panels going up in the cloudiest state with the least population then I see down here in the Florida the sunshine state.
You will be welcomed, there is a whole thread on this just a few weeks ago, go look at that. Also most of these other questions have been answered in other posts so go back and read through the forum
Yes some towns are more alternative. Brattleboro yes, putney yes, woodstock no, The other towns I will defer to people who live there.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
