[arel]

I've been to both the Upper Valley and to Burlington. I visited Burlington twice, I think, a long time ago and a very long time ago. I'm sure the place has changed dramatically. Most people on the forum wax rhapsodic when they write about Burlington. I love the idea that Burlington is close to Montreal, my favorite city outside of NYC. And although it is far from the ocean, it has the lake.

I stayed for a few weeks in WRJ about 20 years ago. I loved the area physically. Really loved it. I liked visiting Hanover and Lebanon. I did find Dartmouth people pretty unfriendly, though.

I have a lot of reasons why I want to move. I have wanted to move for a long time but, until recently, had no idea where to go.

I've always loved New England and have always wanted to move there. I have lived in southern Rhode Island (I have a childhood friend who lives there), but the place really didn't work for me, or at least didn't work for me at that time. I would not have chosen the place if I didn't have friends there and a build-in support system. I like the ocean, but I also love mountains and lush vegetation. The place did not feel quite right for me.

One reason I am interested in Brattleboro, over Burlington and the Upper Valley, is that I want to help my faith community there. Bratt is also an intimate community with lots of things to do. It is not a tiny isolated hamlet, but it is not a city either. And someone once described it to me as an overseas territory of New York. Once, outside Keene, NH, I described it to some people as a kind of Greenwich Village in the woods, and the description seemed to resonate. So, culturally, Bratt is not a sea-change for me.

On a visit last winter, I went to a concert downtown. In the theater, I felt like I was in college again. Sometimes Brattleboro feels like that to me. Also, I sometimes feel like I am in a 1960's time warp there. Feels strange and a little alien. I'm still trying to develop a sense of "home" in Bratt. I feel a little more of it each time I visit, but I suppose I won't really have it until I move there. For some people the right place feels exactly right from the beginning. For me, I don't know.

I did have an unusual experience in or around Amherst, MA, years ago when I was visiting. I stopped at a small gas station off the road. The vegetation was lush. Although I lived in Brooklyn, I remember imagining that this was where I lived, and I thought of Brooklyn as where I used to live. And I have never experienced that feeling anywhere else. But, at the time, I didn't move there. I stayed put in Brooklyn. One thing I like about Brattleboro is that it is close to the Pioneer Valley. It is also relatively close to southern Maine, another old stomping ground for me. And it is relatively close to my friends in Rhode Island; I think it is a little closer than Brooklyn is. Burlington, and even Montpelier, are much longer distances from places I care about. The Upper Valley is a lot closer, though.

Brattleboro, I think, combines the best of rural and urban (well, semi-urban) living. It's small and intimate, and in the country (sort of), but it is not isolated and insular, or, I hope, too much of a fishbowl. The downtown has an urban feel. Much of Brattleboro actually has sidewalks. I am comfortable downtown, pretty much. If I move there and make the emotional separation from NYC, and then decide to move again, Burlington and the Upper Valley will be attractive.

But at least in Brattleboro I would only be an hour away from the Upper Valley - people actually commute there from Brattleboro - so, Gypsy, we could get together and eat at that bagel place you rave about.

[lori from ca]

I'm an elementary tcher in california, and have dreamed about relocating to vt, the tiny towns that must be magical at xmas with the snow, the seasons.......but this forum has been an eyeopener for me, not knowing that the taxes/ especially property tax is so high in vermont.......I think it would bother me feeling 'held hostage' to a limited retail.......and the bureaucracy in NH.....I dream of being snowed in, but i'm not sure you can beat playing volleyball in your bathing suit on the beach in December....

[lori from ca]

Regarding costs for winter heating.......my 'heating' mostly comes from the sun.....my unit faces south with big windows.......I rarely turn on the heat; most heat (electric, nat. gas, etc..) makes the place too stuffy.... Still, I've spent years dreaming about relocating to those vermont winters, it's those Norman Rockwells, but in the end I think I'd be better at character building stuck on the 405 (traffic) than not being able to go out for a spontaneous jog/run (vt winters) Also, I'm surprised on the vt natives leaving because of the cold winters, I would think they would have built up that heartiness to be used to it, that it's the CA types,like me, that would wimp away

[flu189]

Quite a few who cite the winter weather as a main factor to leave do so because with age comes aches and pains that cold weather aggravates. Especially the cold dank and wet weather we have been experiencing this week. Also, for many keeping up with home and landscaping chores becomes too much to handle. I know in ten to fifteen years I will not want to deal with it to the degree I am both willing and capable to do so now. Funny on how your mortality sinks in as the old odometer keeps clicking the years away.

[68vette]

Just how people get sick of living in hot weather they also get sick of living in cold weather. To much of one or the other will wear on you.

[arel]

I don't think there is any place that is perfect. One place is too hot, another is too cold. Once you find a temperate place, it is too rainy. Or there is the danger of earthquakes, wildfires, hurricanes or tornadoes. And once you find a temperate place that is not too rainy and not at risk for natural disasters, then there is nothing to do there and the people are too provincial. And then when you find a temperate place, not rainy or at risk for natural disasters, and with cosmopolitan people, then you have congestion, pollution and crime.

I guess you just have to set priorities as to what you absolutely want and what you absolutely do not want.

Also, some people fantasize about something different and special, then when they get it, they appreciate what they had. So many people move to idealized places and then want to return home.

I agree that these forums can be eye-openers. There are issues with Vermont that are genuinely daunting, at least for me. The high taxes, the high cost of everything, the low salaries, the long, cold, dark winters, and - at least for me, an urbanite - the unlit and icy back roads. Also, there are animals in Vermont, such as fisher cats, which I never heard of until last year, who kill and eat people's pets, especially cats and small dogs.

At the same time, there are wonderful qualities that attract. There is clean air, clean water, locally grown food, low crime, 4 seasons, arts, outdoor activities, courtesy, nice people, mutual aid, tolerance, respect for the environment and soul-nourishing visual beauty.

I wanted to get up to Brattleboro today, but I didn't make it. Not feeling 100% today. That on-again, off-again virus I seem to have. Will try again tomorrow morning. I can get out early; my bags are packed and by the door already. It's a shame. Brattleboro has a community Thanksgiving dinner which is a 30 year old tradition. I also had a private invitation. Maybe next year. Maybe next year I'll be living there. We'll see.

[Air]

I live in Montreal and for what it's worth, I never hear anyone complain about the winter. And the most popular car is a Honda Civic, I don't see any Subarus and very few SUV's. We are much farther north yet all the girls wear heels and skirts all winter long.

I am considering buying a house in Vermont for the warmer climate and lower cost of living. Really.

[Air]

By the way, the vast majority heat with electric here, and it's not expensive. Québec has hydroelectric power, completely separated from the US coal burning plants in Midwest. Maybe Vermont should buy electricity from Hydro Québec.

[flu189]

Originally Posted by Air

By the way, the vast majority heat with electric here, and it's not expensive. Québec has hydroelectric power, completely separated from the US coal burning plants in Midwest. Maybe Vermont should buy electricity from Hydro Québec.

We do buy power from Hydro Quebec and have been doing so for quite some time. The contracts will run out in the next few years so we will see how much and for how much we can continue to get power from up north.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by Air

I live in Montreal and for what it's worth, I never hear anyone complain about the winter. And the most popular car is a Honda Civic, I don't see any Subarus and very few SUV's. We are much farther north yet all the girls wear heels and skirts all winter long.

I am considering buying a house in Vermont for the warmer climate and lower cost of living. Really.

Even though Montreal is further north the winter temps are more mild than in much of Vermont. It has to do with elevation. We have gone to Montreal at times and it seemed like a heat wave compared to home. Burlington is a good example. It is more north than the central part of the state and the temps are more mild by 5-10 degrees. Also there is less snow as well.