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Old 01-28-2008, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,059,978 times
Reputation: 925

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Quote:
Originally Posted by flu189 View Post
Since schools and taxes have been the recent topic of interest, the past few days have been worthy of remembering two lines from everyone's favorite Marine, Gomer Pyle: "Surprise, Surprise" and "Shazaam", oh wait, also "Golleeey". Tax relief will not be on the agenda this year as I just found out my town will increase their rate from last year from .40 to .45 per $100 which is over 12%. This morning the news informs us that the proposed .02 state reduction in school taxes is now off the table and our local district/union is looking forward to an 8% increase. Then I found out that my pay increase will be only 1.8% this year and my wife took a 20% cut by being cut down one day per week. The tensile strength of the cables and ties that bind many folks to Vermont are being stressed to the point of failure. With the economic troubles at all levels we are expected to tighten our belts and spend more wisely, but it seems that our govt representatives are very much out of touch and feel that there is more available to extract.
The school budget and town budget are only one piece of the pie. When you factor in the high cost of heating oil, gas, increasing prices on food related to the cost of fuel, ect, ect. You can tighten down only so much before you decide it's very hard to survive. When your costs increase 20+% from a year ago and you are making less money or less than the cost of living, it's easy to understand why people are begining to be fed up.

 
Old 01-28-2008, 05:24 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,937 posts, read 22,228,192 times
Reputation: 9041
Well, I thought I'd add to this: I'm a guy in my early 20's and am leaving VT for several reasons. They are: high taxes, too much regulation (particularly concerning building/etc.) and too many people. Too many people, some might ask? Yep, too many for my taste, and I can't stand the car pollution on the roads either, gives me problems. Taxes are way too high here, especially property taxes. Too much regulation. I see no reason why I should have to ask a government official for permission to build on land if it's "mine." Of course, in reality, in most of the U.S. you don't truly own property-the government owns it and you merely pay rent each year (property tax) to live there. Anyways, I despise cities and crowds. I've always been more interested in the outdoors/woods/gardening/etc. than in worrying about silly fads and other such stuff (note that I do love antiques largely because of better quality). My goal is to be as self-sufficient as possible, in large part because I simply love gardening, etc. Now, while that is somewhat possible to do here in VT you truly need a well paying job to be able to, because of high property values and taxes and red tape to deal with. I'm planning on moving to Alaska this year or next at the latest. For what I'm going to pay for the 20 acres I'm buying there in a very remote area (untaxed), I could "maybe" buy an acre or two of undesirable land here in VT and maybe just afford to pay the taxes for one year with the rest, and that'd likely not be enough land to garden, keep some chickens (and provide food for them) and provide firewood to avoid relying on oil companies...now granted, I'm perhaps more extreme or "different" in my interests/plans than most of the young people leaving VT, but I think my reasons illustrate well why people are leaving VT. VT will soon enough be only a rich man's playground (sorry to sound like I'm lashing out at others, but a lot of wealthy or wannabe wealthy outsiders from NY, MA, NJ and so forth come here and try to change it into another NY or wherever, and after several decades of this it's showing a very bad result). I love the land here (outside of the cities and towns), the maple syrup, the apples, the nice gun laws (Alaska is the only other state a person can truly exercise their Second Amendment rights, by for example carrying concealed with no license, because a license grants a privilege, whereas a true right requires none...though I will say I have trouble with the schools being off limits here particularly given how vague that law is as to what a school is since it can affect people in college buildings as well) and so forth but that doesn't change the fact that the negatives (I don't consider the cold climate a negative but a positive by the way) are simply so negative.

Now anyways, my point here: VT's government has shot itself in the foot with the high taxes and such. Why would most young people stay here when other states have more to offer at less cost?
 
Old 01-28-2008, 05:27 PM
 
79 posts, read 286,307 times
Reputation: 31
If you really want to get depressed, go to CNN.com/money and check out their cost of living comparison calculator. You can move to some VERY nice areas and pay a lower cost of living than here. VT is so hard to make a living.

My husband I finally broke the 6-figure mark this year, but it still isn't enough with two kids, a mortgage, daycare, heating, food, car payments, etc, etc. I'm not complaining - we are very fortunate to be making that kind of money in VT, but it has come at a price. My husband took a job 5 years ago that requires him to travel 90% of the time. He leaves almost every Monday and either drives or flies to wherever the client site that he's scheduled to be at that week and comes home on Thursday night or Friday. Needless to say, he misses almost all of our children's school functions, not to mention just the day-to-day being a dad. I work full time, take care of the kids and once they are in bed, I work from home most nights until midnight or 1am, get up the next morning and do it all over again. We do live a blessed life and don't want for a whole lot, but we also don't have a whole lot in savings or retirement fund and knowing that we could live someone else, and make comparable salaries (my husband can live anywhere with his job) and live much more comfortably or live as we do, but not work so hard is getting to be too hard to pass up!
 
Old 01-28-2008, 05:50 PM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,417,273 times
Reputation: 395
Just the other day my wife out of the blue said to me how glad she was that our two kids are "grown" up as if we still had them at home and in school we really don't know how we would make it. Then today I go into work and hear the "we are over budget" and that due to staffing concerns leaves will be hard to come by this summer if we get them at all. Now with the markets in flux our hopes to move and downsize have been delayed. I know that watching investments drop can be stressful, but note that it is pretty important to begin putting away money for your future retirement as time has a funny way catching up to you. Kind of funny that the only way I can envision at the moment to escape taxes and actually once again put cash into my account is to welcome an upcoming overseas deployment for a year. At my age it will be the last time I hope to deal with this, but I can guarantee that when I return the for sale sign will go up, so as lousy it sounds, I hope the folks with the cash will follow their dreams up here.
 
Old 01-28-2008, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Cambridge, MA
9 posts, read 27,305 times
Reputation: 13
I've lived in Vermont all my life, but as a sophomore in college (my school is in Mass.) I've already made up my mind that I don't want to go back.

Vermont was a beautiful, safe place for me to grow up, but it was very difficult to find a job. I also feel too sedentary when I'm in Vermont, like I have a lack of options. Being so close to Boston has made me realize how fake country people can be. I feel like I live under a magnifying glass in VT, but here people ignore you and mind their own business.

It's too expensive to live in VT (with property taxes and such) and because of a lack of adequate public transportation we rely on vehicles (which aren't getting any cheaper to use).

That's all I have for now.
 
Old 01-28-2008, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,816 posts, read 29,043,056 times
Reputation: 7390
Quote:
Originally Posted by amour View Post
Being so close to Boston has made me realize how fake country people can be. I feel like I live under a magnifying glass in VT, but here people ignore you and mind their own business.
Watch yourself. With the country folk, you knew what you were getting. Living in or near the city, you are ultimately bound to meet more than your fair share of wolves in sheeps clothing.
 
Old 01-29-2008, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Vermont
83 posts, read 239,707 times
Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Watch yourself. With the country folk, you knew what you were getting. Living in or near the city, you are ultimately bound to meet more than your fair share of wolves in sheeps clothing.

There's an element of reality to that statement. I feel I'm fairly well traveled, being I've been seeing America as a whole for nearly 30 years now. I'm a decent judge of character, too.

When we first purchased our very dilapidated, run down home here in 1995, we worked 40 hours a week on the cleaning, demolition and rebuilding inside to make it "liveable". The general store was a few hundred yards up the road, so every day we'd show up for lunch, coffee, etc. Oh, how warm and fuzzy the natives seemed to be; telling me how nice it was to see someone finally do something with "the old place". I thought I'd moved into Mayberry, RFD. It was what I wanted all my life.

After we got the place in shape enough to move into, and the lights STAYED ON every day now, all of a sudden, the attitudes changed. It seemed they thought we were rich city folk turning the place into a second home, and that's good for the town. It's a great thing when people have a second home, pay the big tax bills, and don't burden the school system with kids to educate. Not to mention, you get NOTHING ELSE for the taxes you pay...no water, sewer, trash pickup, nada, zilch, nuttin'.

The good news is, our taxes are still really reasonable for some unknown reason.(Knocking on hardwood...side of my head.) But, as time went by, we started to see the true colors come through. There's another store down the road which we refer to as the "Gossip Central", a place that even though it was closed for almost a year recently, and now under new ownership by very nice people now, still is the gathering place for the same busybodies that congregated there 6-8 years ago. They still sit in the same chairs by the pot belly stove.

Their mission in life it seems, is to create "ASSUMPTIONS" about everybody. My wife happens to know a woman who works there, and constantly tries to "pump" my wife for useful, pot belly stove worthy information. We're a little more savvy than they think, so we just play the "Geez, I don't know" game.
The aggrevating thing is how much they've twisted our integrity up with the locals, busybodies, etc. We never did a thing to anyone, don't want to be bothered, just want to be left alone, yet we're the first ones to jump up and help if someone needs it. It's disheartening to be around those fake "country folk" as recently put. But I suppose, that goes on everywhere...not just here.

The amazing thing about that scenario to me is, it's a mixture of natives and transplants, that for whatever reason were accepted into the "click" at the pot belly stove. I think their biggest pet peave with us is that we don't join in on the congregational hearings held there. Thus, they have to make assumptions that we're "too good", or "unfriendly", whatever the case may be. I stopped in there for the first time in 5 solid years recently when the new owners took over because I needed gas in a big way. I left there shaking my head. Same folks, just a little older looking. One of the leaders of the pot belly stove crew was staring at me so hard I felt he was looking straight through me. He was just dying to catch up on my 5 years of absence from the stove, but I wasn't going to let him have the pleasure of taking my information and reusing it...Been there, done that...got the tee shirt with the hood AND the fleece lining when I first moved here and was a pot belly stove hugger myself. I've grown I guess...
 
Old 01-29-2008, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Rutland, VT
1,822 posts, read 4,524,091 times
Reputation: 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowboyTZ View Post
The aggrevating thing is how much they've twisted our integrity up with the locals, busybodies, etc. We never did a thing to anyone, don't want to be bothered, just want to be left alone, yet we're the first ones to jump up and help if someone needs it. It's disheartening to be around those fake "country folk" as recently put.
I would be disheartened, too! I'm actually horrified to think that adults are treating others like this -- and their fellow community members! What an example they're setting for their kids, who won't know any other way to behave. Very sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowboyTZ View Post
But I suppose, that goes on everywhere...not just here.
I imagine there are pockets like that everywhere. But not all of Vermont is like that! Granted I haven't lived in many places. I spent years in Peterborough, Rindge, and Keene, NH, and in Rutland, VT. And I have not had that experience. But Rutland is not a tiny town. It's easy enough to find people who one clicks with, rather than stewing in a clique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowboyTZ View Post
One of the leaders of the pot belly stove crew was staring at me so hard I felt he was looking straight through me. He was just dying to catch up on my 5 years of absence from the stove, but I wasn't going to let him have the pleasure of taking my information and reusing it...Been there, done that...got the tee shirt with the hood AND the fleece lining when I first moved here and was a pot belly stove hugger myself. I've grown I guess...
Good for you! You have thicker skin than I. The description of that behavior just creeps me out. If that was my Vermont experience, I doubt I'd still be here, and I doubt I'd be intending to stay a lifetime. But then I am extremely extroverted and while I don't do "nightlife" as such, community involvement & activities are really what I'm about.
 
Old 01-29-2008, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,816 posts, read 29,043,056 times
Reputation: 7390
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowboyTZ View Post
There's an element of reality to that statement. I feel I'm fairly well traveled, being I've been seeing America as a whole for nearly 30 years now. I'm a decent judge of character, too.

When we first purchased our very dilapidated, run down home here in 1995, we worked 40 hours a week on the cleaning, demolition and rebuilding inside to make it "liveable". The general store was a few hundred yards up the road, so every day we'd show up for lunch, coffee, etc. Oh, how warm and fuzzy the natives seemed to be; telling me how nice it was to see someone finally do something with "the old place". I thought I'd moved into Mayberry, RFD. It was what I wanted all my life.

After we got the place in shape enough to move into, and the lights STAYED ON every day now, all of a sudden, the attitudes changed. It seemed they thought we were rich city folk turning the place into a second home, and that's good for the town. It's a great thing when people have a second home, pay the big tax bills, and don't burden the school system with kids to educate. Not to mention, you get NOTHING ELSE for the taxes you pay...no water, sewer, trash pickup, nada, zilch, nuttin'.

The good news is, our taxes are still really reasonable for some unknown reason.(Knocking on hardwood...side of my head.) But, as time went by, we started to see the true colors come through. There's another store down the road which we refer to as the "Gossip Central", a place that even though it was closed for almost a year recently, and now under new ownership by very nice people now, still is the gathering place for the same busybodies that congregated there 6-8 years ago. They still sit in the same chairs by the pot belly stove.

Their mission in life it seems, is to create "ASSUMPTIONS" about everybody. My wife happens to know a woman who works there, and constantly tries to "pump" my wife for useful, pot belly stove worthy information. We're a little more savvy than they think, so we just play the "Geez, I don't know" game.
The aggrevating thing is how much they've twisted our integrity up with the locals, busybodies, etc. We never did a thing to anyone, don't want to be bothered, just want to be left alone, yet we're the first ones to jump up and help if someone needs it. It's disheartening to be around those fake "country folk" as recently put. But I suppose, that goes on everywhere...not just here.

The amazing thing about that scenario to me is, it's a mixture of natives and transplants, that for whatever reason were accepted into the "click" at the pot belly stove. I think their biggest pet peave with us is that we don't join in on the congregational hearings held there. Thus, they have to make assumptions that we're "too good", or "unfriendly", whatever the case may be. I stopped in there for the first time in 5 solid years recently when the new owners took over because I needed gas in a big way. I left there shaking my head. Same folks, just a little older looking. One of the leaders of the pot belly stove crew was staring at me so hard I felt he was looking straight through me. He was just dying to catch up on my 5 years of absence from the stove, but I wasn't going to let him have the pleasure of taking my information and reusing it...Been there, done that...got the tee shirt with the hood AND the fleece lining when I first moved here and was a pot belly stove hugger myself. I've grown I guess...
My primary residence is on LI, in a Large Small Town (sorta like jumbo shrimp, ya know?) Through voracious development it has spread well beyond it's historical boundaries and yet those very unseen boundaries make a world of difference. Within them, the old time residents and new residents intermingle. 'Townies' look at the newbies as though they are here to muck things up and yuppify the place. Newbies look at townies as the geriatric old guard who won't budge or yield to progress. (Tell me does this scenario not sound like one that has played out in VT time and again?)

In the venn diagram which is my town, I am in that small group that fits in both groups. Sometimes I think it is worse than being on one side or the other. There's a teeter totter feeling about it.

I feel badly that you have had such a bleak experience with the stove huggers. It's a shame that they haven't taken the time to accept you as a person and respect your individuality.
 
Old 01-29-2008, 02:12 PM
 
15 posts, read 34,402 times
Reputation: 13
Hi Vter:
I am glad I came across your posting--my husband wants to come and try working in Vermont--Montpelier. I will stay for now and I have a good job in NYC. My concern is my giving up the financial security of my job, coming to Vermont and then not finding work. I am an editor but would work at whatever to earn a salary. What do you believe? Right now I'm not a great driver--native New Yorker probably says it all in terms of driving!
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