[pucabear]

Originally Posted by nunoco

I can't speak to where it's easier to get individual welfare benefits, and that's not what I mean when I say welfare-queen states. What I mean is, Tennessee and the rest of the South (and much of the West) consistently get more federal tax money coming into their states than they pay in taxes--more for roads, sewers, hydropower projects, courthouses, business subsidies, etc... per capita. Tennessee may not use that money for individual welfare (and judging by its child-mortality rates, it probably isn't paying much), but its businesses, colleges, etc... are getting a lot of federal subsidy--a polite word for welfare.
For instance, New York state gets about 79 cents in federal tax money coming in for every $1 the state taxpayers send to the IRS. So 20 cents of my tax dollar goes somewhere else--like Tennessee. Which gets $1.27 in federal tax money for every $1 it pays in taxes. (Alabama's No. 1, by the way).
Vermont recently gets some subsidy, too--about $1.08 in benefits for every $1 it paid out in 2005. But it was paying out a lot more than it was getting 15 years ago. See this chart and click on each state. Really interesting:
The Tax Foundation - Federal Taxes Paid vs. Federal Spending Received by State, 1981-2005
So I'm saying you made a good business move. Why should a company or an individual pay taxes in Buffalo or Barre that go to subsidize infrastructure and jobs in Tennessee? You're getting more tax bang for my buck.

You're right, that is very interesting.

[sundialstreet]

Originally Posted by seanpecor

I've heard Scions are terrible in the snow. It's not just snow tires that make a good handling snow car, it's the front/rear weigh distribution and tire widths also. Narrow tires are better than wide tires, which typically means you're better off not getting the "performance" version of a sedan which will typically have rims that want wide tires.

Sean

my scion handled just fine. I think snow driving has more to do with the driver than the car. What good is a subie with an overconfident idiot behind the wheel. I saw way more of that this winter. Do you really need to drive 55 mphs on surface streets in a blinding snow and ice storm? I didn't know there was even anything worth risking death to get to in vermont.

[GregW]

What do the snow, ice, cold and wet have to do with people leaving Vermont? Lots I would guess but I think the main reason is to get some of the jobs created in the states getting federal spending subsidies.

This job discrepancy will only get worse as high fuel costs reduce tourism and vacation spending.

[flu189]

The weather here can and does influence folks to relocate, but it is also true that if the right balance of jobs and cost of living were to exist then for many the weather would not be as high on the list of things to dwell on. A good indicator of this is reflected in recent housing data here in Vt where for example the ownership of million plus dollar homes has skyrocketed in the last seven years. From what I have read the upper end scale of home sales here is quite healthy, but for the vast majority of working families it just keeps getting tighter and tighter to make ends meet.

[GregW]

flu189 - This mal distribution just reflects the mal distribution of wealth in this society and is happening just about everywhere. It is the result of a very carefully implemented neoconservative plan designed to do just that - redistribute income from the working people to the managers and speculators.

[CindyBQuilts]

I grew up in Vermont, umpteenth generation Vermonter. Here's why we left:

1. cost of living/housing - We were living in Springfield, Vermont, 4 years ago - a 3 bedroom ranch was $130,000 (good price in VT) but it needed a total new kitchen. In Iowa, we bought an equivalent house for $50,000, in move-in condition. Gas is consistently cheaper here, by about $.10. Doesn't seem big, but it can make a difference....

2. Weather - we get about 1 month more good weather in the spring and in the fall - that's a total of 2 months less winter. Also helps lessen the cost of heating oil/propane.

3. Liberal government - didn't like the way the state was going, so we left.

4. High property taxes. Here we pay less than $500 in property taxes, would be thousands back in VT.

5. Low paying jobs. With the difference in the cost of living, I'm making as much now as I did 5 years ago in Vermont.

Try driving I-91 in bad weather, with flatlanders passing you left and right (yes, and in 2 lanes, too!), and eventually you'll have enough.

[luv80s]

For us, its the weather and the housing. Winter is too long (didn't realize it when we moved up here) and the houses are too much for the condition they are in. Or at least in the area we would like to live in. And no we don't want to move further out to a more affordable area. Also, the roads here are jacked up. Tired of driving over all these potholes and on the yellow line to avoid messing up my car. Vermont is a nice place to visit but we don't think its the right place for us. But we've had mostly positive experiences here so far and glad we took the chance living somewhere new

[MTK1]

Here are some stats from the opinion section of the Burlington Free Press from the former assistant city attorney of Burlington. No doubt that even in Vermont the rich are getting richer and the so called "working middle class" are being taxed out of existence.

Income Bracket, Change in Adjusted Gross

Income, 2006 vs. 2005

$0 to $49,999
-$2.4 million

$50,000 - $149,999
+$27.3 million

$150,000 and over
+$131.2 million

These Tax Department statistics show that Burlington is not isolated from the manifestation of national economic and tax policies which have resulted in an income growth as skewed for the affluent as that found in the 1920s.

Middle-income taxpayers are indeed feeling a tax pinch. Under the property tax system, the greater your income the smaller the share of it you contribute to municipal services. Their income is stagnating at best while the regressive property tax system let all of this record income growth enjoyed by the affluent pass by unscathed.

Burlington Free Press.com | Opinion

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by CindyBQuilts

I grew up in Vermont, umpteenth generation Vermonter. Here's why we left:

1. cost of living/housing - We were living in Springfield, Vermont,[Suffolk County, NY] 4 years ago - a 3 bedroom ranch was $130,000 (good price in VT)[$430,000 (good price on LI] but it needed a total new kitchen. In Iowa, [NC]we bought an equivalent house for $50,000,[$250,000] in move-in condition. Gas is consistently cheaper here, by about $.10.[half] Doesn't seem big, but it can make a difference....

2. Weather - we get about 1 month more good weather in the spring and in the fall - that's a total of 2 months less winter. Also helps lessen the cost of heating oil/propane.

3. Liberal government - didn't like the way the state was going, so we left.

4. High property taxes. Here we pay less than $500 [$2500] in property taxes, would be thousands back in VT. [$10,000 back on LI]

5. Low paying jobs. With the difference in the cost of living, I'm making as much now as I did 5 years ago in Vermont.

Try driving I-91 [495] in bad weather, with flatlanders [citydiots] passing you left and right (yes, and in 2 lanes, too!), and eventually you'll have enough.

I could make a few little substitutions, and you would have the reason why LIers leave LI for NC. Same reasons, different locations. It's a sad state of affairs.

[tnkg1rl]

Hi there. I was born in Vermont and lived there until I left for the 96'. I lived in a village called Lyndonville, It's the most beautiful place on Earth. I have been around the world the only other place comparable was Alaska. When I retire from the service I plan on moving back to Vermont. It's a great place to raise a family the schools are great, the people are friendly, there is no racial tension. And hey who wouldn't want to share a church with Mario Lopez. I can't tell you enough what a great place it is.

Originally Posted by arel

A while ago, I read an article that said young people are leaving Vermont. I think it said they do it for economic reasons, as there are better economic opportunities elsewhere.

I think just about everyone who has posted anything negative about Vermont has complained about the economy, specifically the low wages and the high cost of living, including taxes.

The only other complaint I have heard is about the weather, specifically the long, cold winter.

Other than specifically personal reasons (college, a specific job, family needs, etc.), why do people choose to leave Vermont? And do people who leave tend to return? And, finally, if they return, do they return to Vermont because of its qualities or because it's home?

I realize these questions are extremely general and probably impossible to answer, but I'd appreciate any comments.