[hannah333]

Hey.. im planning on leaving vermont soon after i graduate in June. why? cause there is absolutely NOTHING here! ive lived here my whole life and the most excitement you can have in this state is going downtown burlington. this state needs some severe growth for business. the costs, yes,are CRAZY high, and there arent good paying jobs to live off of. so... thats my reasoning.. not planning on returning after i move, either.

[arctichomesteader]

There are plenty of things to do in VT (shooting any gun you want is definately worth something, hunting, fishing, and so on) but they aren't as consumerist in nature as in many states. The biggest problem is the high cost of living, mostly caused by the taxes and regulations. It'd not be such a big problem, the lack of jobs, if the taxes weren't sky high. As it is, the taxes here on 5 acres and a shack (which would require even more money and time getting permission to build in the first place) would pay for the 20 acres I own in Alaska within a few years (maybe even a couple years), and I can enjoy most of what VT offers (for a non-consumerist person like myself) there and even more in fact (gold panning just doesn't pan out too well in VT, for example, I've only ever found tiny bits of dust in VT after back-breaking amounts of work, but I just enjoy finding it all the same).

The people in VT need to wake up and realize that these programs and such they demand (note what happened recently during the voting, high cost budgets approved all the while people are complaining about taxes) require high taxes, and those high taxes are destroying the state. The best thing that could be done to fix the problem would be to entirely eliminate property taxes, and find a more fair way to pay for things (I dislike income taxes but it may be the answer here assuming no one is exempt entirely from paying it). People are too quick to spend others' money thinking it doesn't affect them. Too many renters vote for school budget increases and approve of the tax increases that those require, thinking (falsely of course) that they are not affected as they don't own property, but in reality, it's hurting everyone. It'd take them paying directly in taxes and not indirectly, built into the rent they pay, for a lot of these people to realize this, and vote for smaller budgets.

[chaz longue]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

There are plenty of things to do in VT (shooting any gun you want is definately worth something, hunting, fishing, and so on) but they aren't as consumerist in nature as in many states. The biggest problem is the high cost of living, mostly caused by the taxes and regulations. It'd not be such a big problem, the lack of jobs, if the taxes weren't sky high. As it is, the taxes here on 5 acres and a shack (which would require even more money and time getting permission to build in the first place) would pay for the 20 acres I own in Alaska within a few years (maybe even a couple years), and I can enjoy most of what VT offers (for a non-consumerist person like myself) there and even more in fact (gold panning just doesn't pan out too well in VT, for example, I've only ever found tiny bits of dust in VT after back-breaking amounts of work, but I just enjoy finding it all the same).

The people in VT need to wake up and realize that these programs and such they demand (note what happened recently during the voting, high cost budgets approved all the while people are complaining about taxes) require high taxes, and those high taxes are destroying the state. The best thing that could be done to fix the problem would be to entirely eliminate property taxes, and find a more fair way to pay for things (I dislike income taxes but it may be the answer here assuming no one is exempt entirely from paying it). People are too quick to spend others' money thinking it doesn't affect them. Too many renters vote for school budget increases and approve of the tax increases that those require, thinking (falsely of course) that they are not affected as they don't own property, but in reality, it's hurting everyone. It'd take them paying directly in taxes and not indirectly, built into the rent they pay, for a lot of these people to realize this, and vote for smaller budgets.

Seems difficult to compare Alaska and VT. For starters, aren't the state tax structures completely different? I seem to remember AK residents getting paid by the state, but I may be entirely mistaken...is that a thing of the past?

The other thing which would seem to make this comparison difficult is the fact that in VT, it's very easy to get to other places (Montreal, Boston, NYC, etc etc etc) whereas in AK, I'm not sure where you'd visit without planning a major trip...

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by chaz longue

Seems difficult to compare Alaska and VT. For starters, aren't the state tax structures completely different? I seem to remember AK residents getting paid by the state, but I may be entirely mistaken...is that a thing of the past?

The other thing which would seem to make this comparison difficult is the fact that in VT, it's very easy to get to other places (Montreal, Boston, NYC, etc etc etc) whereas in AK, I'm not sure where you'd visit without planning a major trip...

I wasn't saying the taxes are comparable, only that both states offer more for a person interested in outdoors type activities than for city type people. The taxes aren't comparable at all. AK has no state income tax, sales tax or property tax. Organized boroughs and cities can charge property taxes (Fairbanks North Star, Anchorage, Mat-Su, etc., all do have high property taxes, while Denali Borough and some some others don't). Unorganized areas, such as in the unorganized borough where I bought land, have no property taxes. So I will only have federal taxes to worry about when I finally move there, other than fees for hunting/fishing licenses and such.

Correct, residents (you have to live there 1 year to qualify as a resident for things such as resident hunting licenses, etc.) do get paid from the permanent fund, though the payments vary widely. If someone wants to live a typical lower 48 lifestyle in AK, requiring electricity, oil or gas, taxes in the cities, etc., that money wouldn't put a dent in expenses though. If you want a self-sufficient type lifestyle, though, as I do, and don't rely on those services/corporations, it's one of the best states for that if you can take the climate, due to the lack of government interference in the form of regulations and taxes you find elsewhere. Personally, I don't care to visit places like NYC, Montreal, etc., I've visited NYC and Montreal and some other big cities before and don't care for them a bit. I don't even like small cities or towns actually. Parts of VT used to be almost as difficult to travel in. I think ease of transportation is a negative, as it brings with it ever increasing numbers of people, annoying automobiles and their pollution and so on.

[flu189]

I lived in Ak for over 21 years and yes there are some major differences. Now I did not live out in what is termed "the bush", but rather in Anchorage. The money each resident receives still exists and is called the Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend which is based on a combination of oil royalties and more and more now on a five year scale of market performance of the invested funds since it has been about fifteen years since peak crude production was achieved. I saw PFD amounts as low as $300 some years to as high as over $1900. Since we did not have an income tax or sales tax in Anchorage the extra money for the most part went toward consumer goods which in turn promoted business. Pretty much everything you could need was available in Anchorage or much like in Vt you just ordered it and had it shipped. While it is true that you get the feeling of isolation many folks annually travelled to Seattle and other points. I knew several that would take the three plus hour flight to Seattle for the weekend and once even went with a friend to buy a car there and drive it back up. Cost of living can be higher for several categories, but during my time there the cost of general merchandise came into line with the lower 48. I bought my '04 Ford F150 new for $19500 which was a great deal for a vehicle built in Virginia. In general, there was a healthy business climate there, but of course they are not immune to economic and market stressors. I guess the biggest annual change I noticed when comparing AK to Vt is the ratio of house value to property taxes. My Vt home is 75% of the value of my former AK home, but my AK property tax was 57% of my Vt tax.

[luna3]

To mr. JS-online...

I just moved to Vermont from NY and incredibly happy. I rejoice in the clean air, the real and generous and often very educated people, the scenery, the lack of traffic, the outdoor sports, the snow, the unmade-up women, who are pretty without Mabeline and don't need to impress a guy with that bull****. Vermont's values are life values, quality of life. guess your notion of quality and my notion of it are pretty different. LaLa land sounds the perfect place you if you need glitz and glam and clubs and babes. Babbling brooks and snowboarding and quiet dark nights are for me.
have fun.

[the pope]

TARGO

"Vermont is not for everyone"

i love it when these wanna-be Vermonters whine and cry about vt. it is even better when they take their trust funds and leave.

one positive thing about them is that most of them are very amusing to us natives.


you got to be tough to be a real Vermonter


by the way --anybody less than 4th generation is considered still on probation.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by luna3

To mr. JS-online...

I just moved to Vermont from NY and incredibly happy. I rejoice in the clean air, the real and generous and often very educated people, the scenery, the lack of traffic, the outdoor sports, the snow, the unmade-up women, who are pretty without Mabeline and don't need to impress a guy with that bull****. Vermont's values are life values, quality of life. guess your notion of quality and my notion of it are pretty different. LaLa land sounds the perfect place you if you need glitz and glam and clubs and babes. Babbling brooks and snowboarding and quiet dark nights are for me.
have fun.

Well said. Vermont coming up short to Hollywood-yikes.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by flu189

I lived in Ak for over 21 years and yes there are some major differences. Now I did not live out in what is termed "the bush", but rather in Anchorage. The money each resident receives still exists and is called the Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend which is based on a combination of oil royalties and more and more now on a five year scale of market performance of the invested funds since it has been about fifteen years since peak crude production was achieved. I saw PFD amounts as low as $300 some years to as high as over $1900. Since we did not have an income tax or sales tax in Anchorage the extra money for the most part went toward consumer goods which in turn promoted business. Pretty much everything you could need was available in Anchorage or much like in Vt you just ordered it and had it shipped. While it is true that you get the feeling of isolation many folks annually travelled to Seattle and other points. I knew several that would take the three plus hour flight to Seattle for the weekend and once even went with a friend to buy a car there and drive it back up. Cost of living can be higher for several categories, but during my time there the cost of general merchandise came into line with the lower 48. I bought my '04 Ford F150 new for $19500 which was a great deal for a vehicle built in Virginia. In general, there was a healthy business climate there, but of course they are not immune to economic and market stressors. I guess the biggest annual change I noticed when comparing AK to Vt is the ratio of house value to property taxes. My Vt home is 75% of the value of my former AK home, but my AK property tax was 57% of my Vt tax.

From what I've heard and seen when I've checked things out, things in Anchorage are often similar to the lower 48 in price at stores. In much of the state prices are much higher. The bush is bad for prices because of transportation, but, at the same time, one can also rely very little on the outside world in the bush, if willing. My land isn't in the true "bush" by Alaska standards, since a road (Elliott Highway) is just a mile and a quarter away, but being surrounded by state forest land, and with no driveway connecting it to the road, it might as well be. The seclusion and privacy are wonderful, almost as good as the "true" bush, without the thousands spent on flying all my supplies in. I doubt the area I bought in will ever get too crowded, but if it does, I'll sell and move to the "true" bush, using the money I get from the property.

One thing that gives me such a wonderful, hard to describe feeling, is having no property taxes. Knowing all too well how people around me in VT get to feeling dread everytime the tax bill comes for their property, I'll feel quite good. Sort of like how I feel when I grow my own food. Now to just hope that it stays that way for a long time to come...it is nice to know though that the trend seems to be against property taxes recently, in the Denali Borough, and in the proposal for a Deltana Borough elsewhere...

[GregW]

IMHO - Vermont, New Hampshire and Alaska have one thing in common: The winters are getting too darn long. I'm going to head for the desert.