[radioclown]

I love the natural beauty of Vermont, but for me at least, it has gotten to the point where the six month winters and the utter lack of ethnic diversity has driven me insane. (With the exception of the Old North End which is where I coach Little League; that is very diverse.)

Religion wise, I am not religious, but I enjoy discussing it, and that is something I don't get much of here. I am hoping that in July when I move to Jacksonville, I can get more lively discussions on the subject.

Where I work in radio, the opportunities will be better for me down there, and the media market as a whole is significantly better. If I decide to change careers, there are far more opportunities and a much better job market. Vermont simply does not seem to want large businesses here and that will discourage recent college graduates from either moving here, or in the case of natives, staying in the state.

In some ways I will miss the state, but I will be laughing when it is -30 and I am on the beach.

[pucabear]

Originally Posted by fellowes

Am a traveling worker temporarily lodging/working in Rutland 'til August '08. Have read with interest what natives and newbies have written. Just decided to add my two cents. Have lived principally in the southeast and southwest of the US for many years (and in southern Maine briefly as a temp). Vermont is beautiful albeit colder than I would care to live in long-term. The natives seem okay, yet half the folks I've worked with here are transplanted New Yorkers. Noticed right off that New Englanders are more stoic and keep more to themselves. I'm not too put off by this, but the lack of Christianity is uh, striking to the point that I sense a lack of spiritual involvement from people. Liberal/socialist tendencies are rather strong here and that isn't my style either. I was especially dismayed on discovering that Vermont wants to dismantle their only nuclear power plant when it is decommissioned in the coming years. Not terribly intelligent. Rutland is more blue-collar than surrounding communities (Middlebury, Burlington etc.) and suffers from a serious drug crime problem. My first observation of Rutland: economically in trouble due to the fact that about 1/5 of their biz is dead. Other thing that struck me was that in most towns, there are more people under the ground than above it (very creepy). I'm impressed with the homes and acreage outside of town but there's an odd, lonely feeling and I don't sense community like I have seen in the south, midwest and southwest. Of course I'm just temporary and won't return but I wouldn't live here permanently based on my experiences. To each his own and this is just my perspective.

That was pretty much my perspective when I lived in Vermont. However, in all fairness I think it comes down to: how you grew up, what you can tolerate and what your priorities are. It has now been a year since I moved out of Vermont, and I do not regret leaving one bit.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by radioclown

I love the natural beauty of Vermont, but for me at least, it has gotten to the point where the six month winters and the utter lack of ethnic diversity has driven me insane. (With the exception of the Old North End which is where I coach Little League; that is very diverse.)

Religion wise, I am not religious, but I enjoy discussing it, and that is something I don't get much of here. I am hoping that in July when I move to Jacksonville, I can get more lively discussions on the subject.

Where I work in radio, the opportunities will be better for me down there, and the media market as a whole is significantly better. If I decide to change careers, there are far more opportunities and a much better job market. Vermont simply does not seem to want large businesses here and that will discourage recent college graduates from either moving here, or in the case of natives, staying in the state.

In some ways I will miss the state, but I will be laughing when it is -30 and I am on the beach.

My family lives south of JAX; the only people hitting the JAX beaches during the winter are tourists from Canada and the northern reaches of the US. The water has cooled enough that it is not conducive to a recreational swim. I've visited in February and it gets cool (for Florida) in the evenings. There are the occasional freeze warnings.

You'll laugh your butt off the first time you see a little Floridian kid in a snowsuit in January when the temp has gone into the 40s at night.

Will you be living in JAX proper or outside? My family is in Ponte Vedra and St Aug Bch. They love it there. My father say's it's almost perfect that it just needs one thing: me. I've told him that nothing's ever perfect.

Maybe after freezing my arse off in the north for a few more years, paying out same said body part of heating oil for a few years, I'll change my tune.

[radioclown]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

My family lives south of JAX; the only people hitting the JAX beaches during the winter are tourists from Canada and the northern reaches of the US. The water has cooled enough that it is not conducive to a recreational swim. I've visited in February and it gets cool (for Florida) in the evenings. There are the occasional freeze warnings.

You'll laugh your butt off the first time you see a little Floridian kid in a snowsuit in January when the temp has gone into the 40s at night.

Yikes, during the winter, when it is 40ish I am in shorts.

Will you be living in JAX proper or outside? My family is in Ponte Vedra and St Aug Bch. They love it there. My father say's it's almost perfect that it just needs one thing: me. I've told him that nothing's ever perfect.

We don't know yet. We are heading down this week to look for a place to live. My wife is there quite often while I have never been there. I know we will be looking in Southside, Avondale and San Marco.

Maybe after freezing my arse off in the north for a few more years, paying out same said body part of heating oil for a few years, I'll change my tune.

I have seen enough snow in my 14 years in New England that I never want to see another snowflake for as long as I live.

[HolySchnikeys]

I've been here in the Burlington area less that a year. The neighborhood we landed in seems super. The people are great and the opportunities for being outside (in our neighborhood) abound. We have a common space for our son to run until he drops as do the dogs. It took quite a bit of patience to find a place which has turned out to cost $1750/mo (2 bedroom condo rent plus utilities/ nothing extravagant). The thing that puzzles me most about the Green Mountain State is that most are lucky to live within 30 minutes of their workplace. It's disturbing the amount of gasoline that is consumed to keep the environmentally friendly state environmentally friendly. Quite honestly with our current cost of gas I don't know how people can afford to get to work. The time it takes my coworkers to get to work are listed: 20min, 30min, 30min, 30min, 60min, 1hr20min, 70min, 10min, 10min, 15min, and then me @ 5 min. The flip side assuredly is the case...can't afford not to go to work. The benefits for the taxes are beyond my ability to reason. Thank goodness I'm not a home owner. Unless I find an express route up the pay scale I will be leaving in less than 2 years.

[vter]

Just an unscientific observation from this very long thread. The majority of people who don't like it here in VT, came from elsewhere.
I just don't see the negativity in my daily life. Of all my friends and family, noone can imagine living elsewhere.

[mustmove]

Originally Posted by vter

Just an unscientific observation from this very long thread. The majority of people who don't like it here in VT, came from elsewhere.
I just don't see the negativity in my daily life. Of all my friends and family, noone can imagine living elsewhere.

Sort of. In my experience native VTer's that haven't lived elsewhere either don't realize what the rest of world gets in a paycheck or the burden of moving to the unknown is too great.

[vter]

Not necessarily true...I've lived in NC (6 mos - that was enough!) and Greater Boston (6 years) in my adult life.
My friends/family have lived in Maine, NH, Florida, Boston area and have all come back.
But yes, I do know quite a few who have never left (to live - travel is another story).
I guess the point that is being made is that Vermont is a unique place. A lot of folks who move here come with rose colored glasses and then find that rural life really isnt what they thought it would be. You either love it and will do whatever you can to make it your home, or you don't. To each their own!

[pucabear]

Originally Posted by vter

Not necessarily true...I've lived in NC (6 mos - that was enough!) and Greater Boston (6 years) in my adult life.
My friends/family have lived in Maine, NH, Florida, Boston area and have all come back.
But yes, I do know quite a few who have never left (to live - travel is another story).
I guess the point that is being made is that Vermont is a unique place. A lot of folks who move here come with rose colored glasses and then find that rural life really isnt what they thought it would be. You either love it and will do whatever you can to make it your home, or you don't. To each their own!

I'm not so sure that it is necessarily the "rural life" that is the issue....it wasn't for me, anyway. I grew up in a very rural place, so I know what that is all about. It was more the combination of long winters, high property taxes and the realization that no matter how long I was in Vermont, I was constantly reminded by others that I did not grow up there and therefore would really never belong.

[seanpecor]

I was raised in Vermont and I agree that it is a very unique place. My opinion is that, yes, Vermont is beautiful. Is it unequaled? Not really; we now live in Southwest Virginia and it's equally beautiful down here. Do the folks have a better quality in Vermont? Not necessarily. Overall, they're great folks, but not better or worse than folks from any other state. Vermont has strengths and weaknesses and they vary given your lifestyle.

Why did we leave the state? There are a few reasons. First, the weather. Let's be honest, Vermont is frickin' cold throughout most of the year. The winter is long. Oh, so, long. If you are a Serious Skier or Snowboarder, meaning, if you ski or snowboard almost every weekend, and during the week if you can, then the winter is Awesome. If you are not Seriously into winter recreation, then there is no sensible reason to live in Vermont during the winter; except of course if you were a) born and raised in Vermont and/or have strong family ties to Vermont or b) you were offered a job in Vermont that you couldn't refuse. Because the truth is, you can find lush gorgeous mountains, lush gorgeous valleys and inspiring rivers and lakes in a dozen or more states with much warmer climates. If you're not seriously into winter recreation, then the Vermont winter will grind on you. The only possible lifestyle exception is The Hermit. The hermit rarely goes outside, lives with the TV blaring constantly, or is constantly on the Internet, or is constantly going from one air controlled structure to the next. Hermits don't fuss with the weather because they're never in it If you've spent more than a decade in Vermont you've probably come to observe that the state has more than its fair share of Hermits

The other reason we left is the housing market and the cost of maintaining the home. Despite the fact that Vermont has a slow 6 year growth rate of 2.5%, the housing stock is priced as if the growth rate is much higher. Labor costs are indeed higher in Vermont, but that alone doesn't justify the elevated housing costs. Even if you are accepting of the house quality that you can afford in Vermont, you are then faced with the challenge of paying an inordinately high property tax burden. A house worth $300K (below most median home values in Vermont townships) would require about $500/month in property tax payments, presuming something like a $1.90/$100 property tax rate. We live in Franklin County, Virginia. By comparison, our property tax rate is $0.47/$100. And furthermore, a home with a market value of $300K down here would be a much nicer home. We're talking a one or two tax brackets nicer. Don't need THAT nice of a home? That's okay, take the thousands you'd save living down here and put it into your retirement.

Another reason we left is the cost of living. In Vermont, everything is more expensive. Our living expenses would be 20% higher (at least) if we stayed in Vermont. That's a pretty big premium.

I know I've been hard on Vermont but I have to speak from my own perspective. The reality is that there are plenty of people with lifestyles that are perfect for Vermont. But if you find yourself wondering when the winter will ever end, or if you will ever get to plant your garden (I planted mine in late April), or when your pool will be warm enough to swim in, or you wonder why you and your spouse are making $100K a year together but are struggling to make ends meet, then you might consider giving another state a try.

Sean