U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Vermont
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-17-2008, 10:07 AM
 
894 posts, read 1,287,006 times
Reputation: 259

Advertisements

Fair warning is all. I don't think anyone says don't move to VT, it's more being honest that compensation/opportunities are less than most areas and expenses can be significantly more than similar areas a state or two south. Let's be honest VT is number 1 in taxes and almost last in gross state product with zero percent private sector job growth over the last decade. Not to mention the highest per capita illegal drug use. But hey if folks like it here and they can make ends meet, fine by me.

 
Old 06-17-2008, 11:08 AM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,420,964 times
Reputation: 395
I would also have to say that I don't feel that anyone really has come out and said not to move here. Actually, I hope that people with the means and ability to move here will continue to do so, otherwise the potential for me to eventually sell my home would become grealy diminished. As far as those who are now out of state, but with former ties and experience living here, their opinions, observations, and experiences and the sharing of same could prove to be valuable to many who are only considering Vt without the benefit of doing some in depth research and seriously evaluating their current situation. There are many positive aspects to living here, but unfortunately for many, fiscal issues and responsibility, especially for those with families, needs to be in the eqaution if you are going to spend the time, money, and effort to relocate here. Of course, if you have a job waiting for you here that pays well to cover your obligations, then your stress will be much less. As far as the renting versus owning question goes that also needs to be looked at closely. True, you could buy something simple that may need some work, but strictly from my experience the costs of maintaining and improving your property here are much steeper than anywhere else I have lived. So, couple that with mortgage, taxes, utilities, insurance, and the now flat housing market in terms of appreciation, then renting at this time might just be the right thing if you are not sure about making a long term commitment to staying here.
 
Old 06-17-2008, 01:58 PM
 
894 posts, read 1,287,006 times
Reputation: 259
Good point, I have a house to sell. Have I ever mentioned how my life in VT is exactly like the pictures in Vermont Life magazine. Hoo boy is it beautiful and organic and sustainable...
 
Old 06-17-2008, 02:30 PM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,420,964 times
Reputation: 395
Some important news broke today in that our local IBM facility in Essex is strongly rumored to be facing some substantial staff reductions. Of course, some view this as good news wishing that we could be rid of IBM entirely. This is based on a few comments to the article as it appeared today. Why do I suspect that people that wish this and feel this way are also the ones who react favorably to the rising costs of gas/oil and are anxiously awaiting the shutdown of Vermont Yankee in 2012. I personally know two longtime folks with IBM, and they have confirmed the rumors way before the story broke and feel that in a few years local operations could very well cease. Amazingly, IBM itself is doing quite well with their stock at a 52 week high. The Essex, Vt "Systems & Technology Division" however is reported to be losing revenues. I would bet that the real truth lies between the lines. A few months ago as some may remember our Senate Pro Tempore Shumlin got a bit nasty with an IBM rep when the issue of energy came up. Of course if IBM follows through with reductions and with a future potential of relocation, the economic effect here will be profound. Of course some of the blame will fall on the global economy and outsourcing, or it's just another evil corporation which puts profits before people. Don't expect public acknowledgement from Montpelier that maybe, just maybe, some of our own decisions and regulations may have hastened IBM's departure, and that of others who have folded up their tents and hit the trail.
 
Old 06-17-2008, 06:15 PM
 
3 posts, read 9,336 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by picante View Post
I find it interesting that many of the folks who are posting negative thoughts on VT don't live here but live in VA, FL, etc, They seem to want to keep a connection to VT at least through this forum. That in itself says something.

I read someone elses post saying they can't afford to buy but are paying $1750 in rent and utilities! There are any number of homes you could by in the Burlington area that would be cheaper, even including your property taxes. That's without including the tax advantages of owning.

Like Vter, most folks I know have no complaints about living in VT. If you don't like living here, that's fine, its not for everyone. The individual from down south didn't like the lack of strong Christian culture or the liberal attitutes. I appreciate both, as do the people I know.

You don't like VT, you don't like it. But I have problems with folks telling others not to move here because of the lack of economic opportunity. I help people relocate to the Burlington area all the time and all can afford it, all can afford it on less than $100K/yr.

VT has one of the lowest forclosure rates in the country. As much as the housing market might be hurting, more homeowners are more secure here than in other states.
I left VT in 2006 and look forward to returning in July, 2008. I can hardly wait.

My taxes in Ohio are significantly higher than they were in Vermont. I own a $300,000 house in VT and I own a house worth $220,000 here in Ohio. The property taxes are about the same, just under $4,000 per year. In addition, in Ohio I have local school and village income taxes. While living in Vermont I paid 3.37% of my income for state and local income taxes. I moved to Ohio and that number jumped to 6.42%. Who said taxes in Vermont were the highest in the country. I lived it and it is not true.
 
Old 06-17-2008, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Vermont
1,442 posts, read 5,905,415 times
Reputation: 450
Thank you! This thread can be scary to someone who is planning to move to Vermont.

I will be moving up as soon as my house in Brooklyn sells.

I am looking forward to the Brattleboro culture of liberalism, arts, outdoors and community!

But I do have a "Plan B" if things don't work out.
 
Old 06-17-2008, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Back in NYS
2,489 posts, read 7,425,742 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by flu189 View Post
Some important news broke today in that our local IBM facility in Essex is strongly rumored to be facing some substantial staff reductions. Of course, some view this as good news wishing that we could be rid of IBM entirely. This is based on a few comments to the article as it appeared today. Why do I suspect that people that wish this and feel this way are also the ones who react favorably to the rising costs of gas/oil and are anxiously awaiting the shutdown of Vermont Yankee in 2012. I personally know two longtime folks with IBM, and they have confirmed the rumors way before the story broke and feel that in a few years local operations could very well cease. Amazingly, IBM itself is doing quite well with their stock at a 52 week high. The Essex, Vt "Systems & Technology Division" however is reported to be losing revenues. I would bet that the real truth lies between the lines. A few months ago as some may remember our Senate Pro Tempore Shumlin got a bit nasty with an IBM rep when the issue of energy came up. Of course if IBM follows through with reductions and with a future potential of relocation, the economic effect here will be profound. Of course some of the blame will fall on the global economy and outsourcing, or it's just another evil corporation which puts profits before people. Don't expect public acknowledgement from Montpelier that maybe, just maybe, some of our own decisions and regulations may have hastened IBM's departure, and that of others who have folded up their tents and hit the trail.
Hi flu - I'm over in NH but your post above caught my eye - IBM has been downsizing and off-shoring for quite some time. We used to live in NY and my husband worked for IBM in Poughkeepsie. In the 90's there was a round of lay-offs. Since that time, IBM has been gradually reducing its work force in the US. When the first round of lay-offs happened in the Poughkeepsie plant, the impact on the surrounding areas was a hard hit - I would say the majority of the people who worked in Poughkeepsie and surrounding towns worked for IBM and it was not pretty.

In 2005, my husband was "resourced" (IBM-speak for fired) as his job went overseas. He had 25 years with the company. Luckily, he had the age and years combination to also retire. He let the company fire him, with a severance package, then went ahead and retired, so he was fairly lucky. Since he left the company, many more have followed. Poughkeepsie is no longer the plant it once was, and IBM is no longer the company it once was.

There's a website: Alliance@IBM CWA Local 1701 - if you go to the "your comments" section and then "job cuts" you can read about the rumors and comments from those who have been cut - they have an article from the Burlington FreePress about the rumored lay-offs. Some of the info on the site is rumors, others are postings from people who were let go have been told they probably will.
 
Old 06-17-2008, 07:08 PM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,420,964 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsd5468 View Post
I left VT in 2006 and look forward to returning in July, 2008. I can hardly wait.

My taxes in Ohio are significantly higher than they were in Vermont. I own a $300,000 house in VT and I own a house worth $220,000 here in Ohio. The property taxes are about the same, just under $4,000 per year. In addition, in Ohio I have local school and village income taxes. While living in Vermont I paid 3.37% of my income for state and local income taxes. I moved to Ohio and that number jumped to 6.42%. Who said taxes in Vermont were the highest in the country. I lived it and it is not true.
Welcome back. Regarding taxes Vt on average is up in the 90th percentile when all taxes are included based on income and house value per capita. In my town a 300k property will run you 5 to 6k in property taxes and if buying a 300k house anywhere in the state your property transfer tax will be 3k in addition to the annual property tax. Income taxes will vary from 3.6% to 9.5% depending on your income with three gradients in between. I have heard some horror stories from others that have been in certain locales in Ohio as well as in several other states when it comes tax burdens. I guess researching the tax and cost of living aspects goes without saying when relocating.
 
Old 06-18-2008, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Apex, NC
1,341 posts, read 5,641,297 times
Reputation: 577
mtsd5468 offers a good perspective. If your taxable income is such that you qualify for VT's ~ 3.5% rate then you fit into the demographic that is treated quite nicely by VT's progressive tax structure.

According to The Tax Foundation (The Tax Foundation - Educating Taxpayers Since 1937) Ohio has the 27th highest average property tax burden, and Vermont has the 7th highest tax burden. Vermont's income tax burden rapidly increases as you exceed $31K in taxable income. If you make under $31K, the rate is only 3.6% but the rate doubles for income past $31K and reaches all the way to 9.5% for higher income folks. There are exceptions of course but, overall, the tax burden of Ohio is substantially lower on average than it is in Vermont.

Sean
 
Old 06-18-2008, 11:55 AM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,420,964 times
Reputation: 395
Energy prices coupled with taxes are going to be the main factors in the next few years that will force a decision point on whether to remain in place and stick it out or relocate. I have a few colleagues at work that over the past few years have been contemplating remaining, but downsizing due to kids finally being gone or just to try and save on commuting and energy. But, the trends and outlook of the prior year have the majority now taking trips outside and researching other locales. Quite often the discussion comes up regarding making improvements and spending money on the current house or to just plan on selling it as is even it means lowering the price below what would be desired. I am kind of in the same boat. My house is efficient, but solely oil heat. I would imagine it would be best to let the eventual new owner decide which methods and modifications to make concerning evolving energy and heating choices.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Vermont
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top