[Biker53]

Originally Posted by sheena12

That is not even remotely true.

NYC has absolutely no jurisdiction over NY State.

Metro NYC (NYC, Westchester, Long Island) does control the State via the voting booth. They control the Statehouse via the magnitude of their voting power.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Biker53

Metro NYC (NYC, Westchester, Long Island) does control the State via the voting booth. They control the Statehouse via the magnitude of their voting power.

Well, that is where most of the people in the state live as well. That is why Downstate gives more than it gets, as does NY State in relation to many other states from the Federal government.

[Biker53]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Well, that is where most of the people in the state live as well. That is why Downstate gives more than it gets, as does NY State in relation to many other states from the Federal government.

The point is that VT and Upstate NY are different in large part because that vast Downstate population has caused the entire State to be burdened by a massive bureaucracy that micromanages every facet of life. If it weren't for that Downstate control, Upstate NY might have far more in common to VT.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Biker53

The point is that VT and Upstate NY are different in large part because that vast Downstate population has caused the entire State to be burdened by a massive bureaucracy that micromanages every facet of life. If it weren't for that Downstate control, Upstate NY might have far more in common to VT.

It still wouldn't in a lot of ways that have already mentioned and Upstate NY would likely be more expensive, unless it changed its governmental structure. That latter aspect is something that should be occurring anyway.

School district structure is different in VT in comparison to NY as well. You'll find more centralised school districts in NY as a whole, with some exceptions versus the various school districts in VT that can be based upon school level.

Also, Upstate NY varies greatly economically and has more affluent communities than people may realize.

[grouse789]

Upstate NY varies greatly economically and has more affluent communities than people may realize

^^^^^. That's true, state population alone dwarfs VT . However, those border areas can be sketchy.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by grouse789

^^^^^. That's true, state population alone dwarfs VT . However, those border areas can be sketchy.

Yeah, some can be gritty and can be solid/fine places.

I will say that you can find your share of nice and walkable small villages and cities in Upstate NY, if you know where to look. Places like Skaneateles, Clinton, Seneca Falls, Fairport, Pittsford, Brockport, East Aurora, Lewiston, Cooperstown, Clayton, Sackets Harbor, Corning, Geneva and Canandaigua are some that come to mind.

[Jacques3]

MAJOR differences between upstate NY and VT have been covered and I generally agree with analyses.

Basically: Geography and climate more or less identical. Autumn is breathtaking in both places, hence the bumper to bumper traffic every October of leaf peepers from points south. Plenty of snow in both places. Muddy, yucky spring and gorgeous summers that are far too short.

Culturally--Mega differences. Upstate NY is much more conservative, narrow minded, and less educated--at least in the Adirondack area I'm familiar with--Warrensburg, Chestertown, Lake George, etc. Most of VT with the exception of small pockets of the Norteast Kingdom--St. Johnsbury area are quite open minded, progressive, accepting, and more likely to have a college degree.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Jacques3

MAJOR differences between upstate NY and VT have been covered and I generally agree with analyses.

Basically: Geography and climate more or less identical. Autumn is breathtaking in both places, hence the bumper to bumper traffic every October of leaf peepers from points south. Plenty of snow in both places. Muddy, yucky spring and gorgeous summers that are far too short.

Culturally--Mega differences. Upstate NY is much more conservative, narrow minded, and less educated--at least in the Adirondack area I'm familiar with--Warrensburg, Chestertown, Lake George, etc. Most of VT with the exception of small pockets of the Norteast Kingdom--St. Johnsbury area are quite open minded, progressive, accepting, and more likely to have a college degree.

I wouldn't go this far. Rochester and Albany are in the top 25 in regards to top 100 metro areas in terms of educational attainment. Buffalo and Syracuse are both around the national average in this regard. Ithaca is a top 3 metro in this regard out of about 481 metro areas. I believe some of these areas have some of the highest rates of people 25 and older with Graduate degrees in the country as well.


On the flip side, Buffalo, Rochester and Ithaca currently have mayors of Black African descent and Dunkirk has a mayor of Hispanic descent and is the first in NY State history. Syracuse's current mayor is a woman, as is the mayor of Albany, Hudson, Rome and Norwich. Chemung County's county sheriff is Black(So was Madison County's sheriff until recently). Syracuse's current police chief is Black. I could go on and on, but that gives you an idea of the cultural difference in terms of visibility and not just attainment and voting patterns.


Also, Upstate NY is more moderate, with the cities/urban areas being more "liberal" and the rural areas being more "conservative"/moderate. People generally aren't too far either way.

To be honest, the Burlington area appears to be a bigger and less culturally diverse version of the Ithaca area. Burlington's metro population is a little bit less than the Binghamton metro area.

Paul Smith's is in the Adirondacks and is home to a small college. Forest Home, Cayuga Heights, Northeast Ithaca and Lansing are outside of Ithaca. Chautauqua is where the Chautauqua Institute is located in the far SW corner of the state. Alfred is a small college town in the Southern Tier of the state. So, quite a few places high on the NY list are in Upstate NY.

[Biker53]

I think there may be some definitional differences at play here when the phrase Upstate NY is used. I was thinking in terms of the parts of NY that are just to the West of VT, basically north of Albany along the I87 corridor in a "which side of the border should I live on" kind of discussion. I wasn't thinking Albany and points south or heading West on the I90 corridor.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Biker53

I think there may be some definitional differences at play here when the phrase Upstate NY is used. I was thinking in terms of the parts of NY that are just to the West of VT, basically north of Albany along the I87 corridor in a "which side of the border should I live on" kind of discussion. I wasn't thinking Albany and points south or heading West on the I90 corridor.

That would be the Adirondack/North Country area of (Upstate) NY. Upstate NY is in reference to being the portion of the state north of NYC or the NYC metropolitan area. That portion of the state would still have enough people to be a top 15 state in population, if it was on its own.

Even if we take the I-87 Corridor north of Albany, Glens Falls and Plattsburgh are areas with some solid rural/suburban/small town areas. That would also include the previously mentioned Saratoga County, which is a growing county.

I know that Plattsburgh had an openly gay mayor in the recent past. So, things likely vary in that part of the state depending on the city/town in terms of views.