[hschoolingfam]

There are so many differing opinions on these state forums,
so I wish to share my reflections of growing up in VT for those
considering a move to the state, and perhaps those considering
moving from VT.
I was raised in S. Vermont in a lower income family. It took
several years of self-employment in the logging industry for my
Stepfather to become financially successful.
I now reside in Florida, but I miss so much of Vermont:
Autumn- the sight, scent and briskness that it brings.
Schools- small class sizes and safety.
Space and greenery and the freedom to wander.
Winter- YES- I said Winter For every overcast, frigid winter day, there are equally beautiful, sparkling, snow-laden days.
There is so much more, but the above are what I miss most.
I am thankful that I grew up in Vermont, even without material wealth.
Depending on how you define success in life, Vermont can be a source of success.
P.S. We are considering returning to VT

[arel]

Thank you for a wonderful post.

[Nomoresubways]

You sound a lot like someone I used to know HSchool. Unlikely you're the same person but regardless i have to you painted a great picture of vermont and what you loved about it.

I wish I could paint a similar picture, I mean I also left Vermont over five years ago and still miss it to this day.

And I really can't put my finger on what I miss, that's the weird part. I mean I definitely miss the quietness compared to NY, including individual privacy. I miss the mundane day to day conversations about what's happening in town or to people I used to go to school with. I miss joining forces to battle the "flatlanders" that hijacked our state in the fall and ski seasons. I miss P&C before it turned into Price Chopper and then built up that whole new shopping plaza. I miss the real Wilson's Woods (yes now there's a small neighborhood there now). I miss madame sharies
(sp?) ruins, Grampy's (I guess that's 7-11 now?), hoops at the Crowe Lot, bobsledding (well not quite) off the Harris Hill Ski Jump, Babe Ruth cames at Fort Dummer (and the occasional night game under the lights at Stolte. I miss how amazingly fast everyone responded in snow (and ice) storms. Not sure if everyone if who lives there appreciates how hard the road crews work, but I can tell you father in law dedicated many many nights to making sure parking lots were cleared, especially in the Retreat. I miss the Outlet Center, when it had DUNHAMS, the real one. That place used to get absolutely swamped and there was an older sales guy there named Gino that had been with the company for over 40 years. The guy was amazing and I still today owe so much to him. I'm pretty sure a good percentage of folks older than 25 had their shoes fit for them by Gino.

Anyways I've ranted too much. Hope this gives you an idea how much Brattleboro still means to me, and find it at least interest in your evaluation of the area.

[arel]

What do Vermonters dislike about flatlanders? And do they dislike flatlanders in general, or only certain types?

Brattleboro is very diverse and I've been told a lot of New Yorkers have moved after 9/11.

I'm a flatlander, born and raised in Brooklyn, NY. I went to college in Pennsylvania and I have lived in Rhode Island and, briefly, in White River Junction. One reason I am attracted to Brattleboro is that I could have more of a sense of community than I have here in NYC. I want a cosmopolitan and diverse town where I will feel welcome and included. I want to participate in community life if I go there and I do not want to feel rejected.

Maybe this post should be a new thread altogether, but I'm responding to part of the last post on this thread.

[hschoolingfam]

Originally Posted by arel

What do Vermonters dislike about flatlanders? And do they dislike flatlanders in general, or only certain types

I will try to be as honest as possible in answering this.
In my experience, Vermonters don't dislike flatlanders- it's more complicated
than that. While tourism is depended upon, there are inconveniences that come with it- "leaf peepers" driving erratically, skiing tourists who sometimes treat locals as inferiors, and in my opinion- envy. Locals who find it hard to make ends meet, are confronted with "flatlanders" snapping up land, expensive homes, and local businesses. Naturally, some will have a negative
reaction.
From the area I grew up, most grumbling involved Floridians- ME, now
If I were to sum up the area, honestly? If you were born and raised there,
didn't move away, dislike change- you shouldn't experience much disdain.
I would expect if I returned, a bit of reserve for a time. NOT hostility, just
a reserved nature.
Hope I'm making sense!

[square peg]

To the lowest common denominator: We're not all Vermonters. Heck, we're not all Americans either. But we are people living in an atmosphere that is still greatly decompressed compared to much of the outside world - our interests will not always be alike, but if you can get past my idiosyncrasies, I'm willing to live with yours - type of thing. I didn't grow up here. I came from NH and chose to buy a home and live here over 20 years ago. My grandparents, however, were Vermonters and their parents were too. They lived along the Connecticut River. Some descendants moved to the other side is all, probably for many of the same reasons folks move about today. But VT isn't like it was a century ago. I'm not sure any place is really. VT reveals a striking comparison though, in that communities are still generally tightly woven and folks still care for one another in ways that may seem invisible through the haze of everyday life. Worries are just smaller and fewer. I genuinely believe that and my blood pressure appears to reflect it.

[vter]

There are some good answers to your flatlander vs. native question. I was born & raised in the NEK (Northeast Kingdom) and come from a long line of Vermonters on my mother's side. My father was <gasp> a flatlander!
It's more about culture clash. Vermonters seem to be much less materialistic and more laid back. We don't complain when the road gets muddy in the spring or if our road doesnt get plowed "in time". We don't care about Starbucks (it's all about Dunkin Donuts) or Pottery Barn. A Target would be nice though. It's not about what kind of car you drive or what clothing label you wear.
One piece of advice I can give you is DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH LOCAL POLITICS until you've been in town for a few years. Nothing gets a native's goat then a newcomer getting involved in town politics.
Go to amazon and buy "Real Vermonters Don't Milk Goats" by Frank Bryan. He also has a second book along the same lines called the "Vermont Owner's Manual". Very tongue-in-cheek flatlander vs. native humor, but also very true - just a little exhagerated.
http://www.uvm.edu/~fbryan/humor.html

[arel]

I can understand about not getting involved in local politics, but what about community groups, e.g. arts, social services, working in the food co-op, etc.?

How else are you to meet people if you are new in town?

[vter]

Arel - What you are talking about is totally fine and welcomed.

[Nomoresubways]

Yeah it's a subtle thing Arel, nothing to really worry about. When I stated that I missed battling "flatlanders" it was more a tongue and cheek reference. The only times we really felt overwhelmed were during leaf peeping season and of course all the skiing fanatics.