[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by cgregor

So, how does the new law affect each of you personally? So far, only one person has responded, and that was about an imagined scenario. Anybody here who was in a situation where they actually needed a gun? (Combat veterans, don't bother responding, of course.)

The taking of property without due process impacts everyone who owns one of the targeted items.

[sgthoskins]

Originally Posted by cgregor

So, how does the new law affect each of you personally? So far, only one person has responded, and that was about an imagined scenario. Anybody here who was in a situation where they actually needed a gun? (Combat veterans, don't bother responding, of course.)

I think you're getting at is only the goverment should have guns? Because that sure is what is sounds like.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by phlinak

3) a significant number of the victims are usually engaging in some level of criminal activity, or are in the vicinity of, or associate with, individuals who engage in some level of criminal activity.

"Engaging in some level of criminal activity"

What makes anyone think that the criminals will obey any gun law? My HS classmate was executed by a bunch of criminals who shouldn't have had a gun. He was an NYPD officer guarding the home of a law-abiding, unarmed drug informant.

[vter]

Ok guys...we can round and round. Just a friendly reminder to keep this discussion on the topic of the Vermont legislation and not a general gun control debate. General discussion is held elsewhere on this forum. If you would like help finding it, please feel free to DM me.
As we all know discussions like these can go downhill fast.....so thank you for keeping this discussion civil so far....it's the Vermont way.

[ben young]

Originally Posted by sgthoskins

Again with the mis-information on your "Second" point.

The Alexandria attacker (June 14, 2017), Orlando attacker (June 12, 2016), the UCLA gunman (June 1, 2016), the San Bernardino attackers (December 2, 2015), the Colorado Springs attacker (October 31, 2015), the Umpqua Community College attacker (October 1, 2015), Alison Parker’s attacker (August 26, 2015), the Lafayette movie theater attacker (July 23, 2015), the Chattanooga attacker (July 16, 2015), the alleged Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal attacker (Jun 17, 2015), the Muhammad Carton Contest attackers (May 3, 2014), the Las Vegas cop killers (June 9, 2015), the Santa Barbara attacker (May 23, 2014), the Fort Hood attacker (April 2, 2014), the Aurora movie theater attacker (July 20, 2012), and the man shot Gabby Giffords (January 8, 2011), all passed a FEDERAL BACKGROUND CHECKS to acquire their guns.

It's not the GUNS, it's the deranged criminals.

And as far as the 2nd Amendment is concerned lets not let actual FACTS get in the way.

In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court invalidated a federal law that forbade nearly all civilians from possessing handguns in the nation’s capital. A 5–4 majority ruled that the language and history of the Second Amendment showed that it protects a private right of individuals to have arms for their own defense, not a right of the states to maintain a militia.

Emotions don't win debates, facts do.

Save your breath Sgt., to the Antis this is a religious Crusade,and only the ,Holy Grail , repeal of the Second Amendment maters.

[cgregor]

In view of the fact that only one person has responded to my query about the new law's effects on people personally, I get the feeling that all this fury over Second Amendment rights really isn't about guns, militias, homicidal neighbors and tyrannical government, but rather displacement of anger over other things, like perhaps being in the 80% of Vermonters who haven't seen an increase in household income in the last 40 years, or despair over the fact that their kids will never have the advancement opportunities we had when we were their age and looking toward adulthood, or the inability to find at age 50 a job that will pay as well as the one we lost when the company downsized or moved overseas. Things like those.

Things like those can be dealt with, but they're complicated. They require study, understanding, commitments of time, money and energy that we can't afford, and the result of all our work might not be success.

So, we get angry, but we don't get angry at them. We get angry about something that's simple, clear-cut and makes us look good. And we feel better.

But nothing has really changed for us.....

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by cgregor

In view of the fact that only one person has responded to my query about the new law's effects on people personally, I get the feeling that all this fury over Second Amendment rights really isn't about guns, militias, homicidal neighbors and tyrannical government, but rather displacement of anger over other things, like perhaps being in the 80% of Vermonters who haven't seen an increase in household income in the last 40 years, or despair over the fact that their kids will never have the advancement opportunities we had when we were their age and looking toward adulthood, or the inability to find at age 50 a job that will pay as well as the one we lost when the company downsized or moved overseas. Things like those.

Things like those can be dealt with, but they're complicated. They require study, understanding, commitments of time, money and energy that we can't afford, and the result of all our work might not be success.

So, we get angry, but we don't get angry at them. We get angry about something that's simple, clear-cut and makes us look good. And we feel better.

But nothing has really changed for us.....

They attacked our freedom because of some kid in Fair Haven who is supposedly so dangerous we must give up our freedoms to keep everyone safe. Literally the same day the governor signs these bills the highest state court says, in layman's terms, the charges are a bunch of horse manure and orders he be given bail. Many of us were willing to overlook the lack of opportunity and high cost of living here for the level of freedom we got in return.

[OhBeeHave]

Would you like a reason, cgregor? Close to home for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5CSGbIIfO4

In short, gangbangers from out of state were using Chester and locals to deal and use drugs. For a while, whenever I rolled into town in my dark SUV with NY plates, Chester PD was on me like white on rice. After the bust, I came to understand why.

Two years ago I had a pair of meth heads come to my door. Trying to lure me out asking about 'my farm'. I have no farm. I don't even have a flat, sunny piece of earth. I had a barking dog, my daughter and her 6'2" boyfriend. They called the called the VSP while I tried getting the losers to leave. I didn't have my gun with me and really wished I had. While Vermont is not a Castle Doctrine state, I would sooner take my chances and injure someone with nefarious intentions than allow them to hurt me or my loved ones. It's backwards that a homeowner like Patricia Billings of Rutland , who fired at an intruder who entered her bedroom window, has to worry about the CRIMINAL pursuing action against them. (Note that her house had been burglarized a few months before the intruder broke in.)

The new law will now DENY my daughter her 2nd Amendment right solely because of her age. She's of legal age to vote for or against the politicians who promoted and signed these bills.

More recently, and closer to home for you:
16 arrested in Windosor County drug bust

[arctichomesteader]

Ohbeehave: they did include an exception in the age restriction if an 18-20 year old has passed the hunter ed class. I don't like the implication that the only reason to have a gun is to hunt but that option does exist. I still consider that age discrimination.

[cgregor]

Many of us were willing to overlook the lack of opportunity and high cost of living here for the level of freedom we got in return.

I have to agree: it's a lot cheaper to let a citizen think he's free because he owns a gun than to keep him warm and dry in a house he can afford, financially comfortable in his old age thanks to a great Social Security program and free of debilitating illnesses and chronic pain because of a universal health care system. Is America great, or what?