Burlington area questions (Colchester, South Burlington, Winooski: property taxes, travel, income)

[focail]

I have been accepted into a graduate program at UVM, so my family (husband and 2 school-aged children) might be moving to the Burlington area this summer.

We're from Iowa and we are fully aware of how much more expensive the housing and property taxes are in Vermont, so we're not under any delusions there. Iowa also has winter for at least 5 months out of the year, but then only a month or so before the unbearable heat kicks in. We're usually either heating or cooling our home for 10 months per year--we're no strangers to utility bills.

Everyone keeps saying how expensive Vermont is, but it's difficult to tell if they're speaking of housing and utilities only or if that includes other things such as food or other necessary services. We may be in the ag belt here in Iowa, but good organic, sustainably-produced food is expensive because there are no major metro areas (Des Moines doesn't seem to count).

So, what's the scoop VTers? Is the expensiveness of VT mainly in the housing and property taxes?

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by focail

So, what's the scoop VTers? Is the expensiveness of VT mainly in the housing and property taxes?

I'm a native South Floridian, but the only place I personally have owned a home is in Vermont. It's not cheap, but no one I know anywhere in the world says living is cheap, except for a couple of friends in parts of South America.

We work hard but we are able to do what we enjoy and get what we most need, which includes eating almost entirely local and/or organic food from our local co-op and farmers. (We even buy seconds on fresh produce and other items and have never felt like they were second-best!)

I guess it depends what your resources, priorities, and needs are. For us, Vermont is affordable. We've seen much cheaper houses and lower taxes in some other parts of the country (and much more expensive in other parts). But this is where we want to live.

[vter]

I think the biggest reason why many folks say it's expensive here is that salaries are not keeping up with housing costs. Like Sherylcatmom, Vermont is affordable for us. It fits our lifestyle as well. But, there are many others out there who struggle. Everyone's situations are different.

Here's an article in the local paper today about Housing costs vs. wages:

Burlington Free Press.com | Top Stories

[focail]

Thanks for your responses--we really appreciate it. I'd heard that wages weren't great (the median household income is actually equal to Iowa's, so that part won't be a shock). But, yes, I understand that we're lucky and not everyone is in the same boat as we are. In looking at VT housing prices, it appears that we won't be able to "move up" as one often likes to do when buying a new home. We'll probably be at the same level of house we're currently in, which is just fine.

I'm excited to earn that organic and local food is readily available in VT. It took us years to find an organic farmer close by that sells completely organic, humanely raised meat. Turns out they were there all along, but there's little interest in the local business community in carrying their products or allowing them any means of getting out the word that they even exist.

I feel better now though, guys--thanks!

[Sherylcatmom]

I realize that Iowa is nothing like when this book was written, but I just finished reading Little Heathens by Mildred Armstrong Kalish, whose forbears moved to Iowa and started farming there the year it became a U.S. state!

I found it a delightful read. It made me appreciate the countless creature comforts we have now (as well as my very affectionate family who will discuss anything to the point of TMI), while mourning the loss of deep community connection and the necessity of connection with/awareness of the natural world.

[VeloKev]

Good information here-especially that Burlington Free Press article from VTER. Thanks! I was wondering if RNs in the Burlington area find wages to keep up with cost of living around there, i.e. Colchester, South Burlington, Winooski, etc.

VT is still on my list, but the more I hear about the disparities, the more suspicious I become.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by VeloKev

Good information here-especially that Burlington Free Press article from VTER. Thanks! I was wondering if RNs in the Burlington area find wages to keep up with cost of living around there, i.e. Colchester, South Burlington, Winooski, etc.

VT is still on my list, but the more I hear about the disparities, the more suspicious I become.

My wife is an RN in the SICU/PICU at FAHC in Burlington. I work as a Respiratory Therapist there as well. Both our salaries are not near what we would make in most parts of the country. The pay is better than what it was a few years ago(low to mid twenties per hour). It depends on where you will work and how much experience you have. My wife has been an ICU III nurse(there are three levels I, II and III) for about fifteen years and makes low thirties per hour. Our combined pay looks good, but we have had to really cut back.
We like to use local products, but we are stopping that as well. A good example, I bought Booth Bros. milk this past week and the price was 5 dollars a gallon. I thought there was a mistake. I ended up with the Shaws brand at a little over 3 dollars a gallon. My one big grip about local products is you pay more for them. Why? My inlaws live in Florida and the local produce is increadibly cheap. Then you factor in the higher cost of heating oil that you have to use most of the year and gas.
Our property taxes have doubled since we bought our home and because we are in a higher tax bracket we take home less as well. We love the area and we are surviving, but the pay is not keeping up with the cost of living. Other parts of New England the pay is better. The closer you get to Boston or Ct for example the higher the pay. Those areas pay about twenty to twenty five dollars more an hour. Almost double what you could make in Burlington. As a nurse you have an advantage. If you don't have a family you could take a travel assignment and see if you like the area or not. It will also give you a feeling of how the cost of living will be like outside of housing. The perfect time to take an assignment would be mid August. You will get a feeling of what the summer is like and it will take you into early winter to get a feeling of what the winter is like.

[rem31708]

Originally Posted by 68vette

My wife is an RN in the SICU/PICU at FAHC in
We like to use local products, but we are stopping that as well. A good example, I bought Booth Bros. milk this past week and the price was 5 dollars a gallon. I thought there was a mistake. I ended up with the Shaws brand at a little over 3 dollars a gallon. My one big grip about local products is you pay more for them. Why? .

68Vette -

Funny, I read your note last night, then this morning when I looked at the "Vermont Family Farms" milk (now renamed to New England Family Farms) which we often buy as what we felt was a healthy alternative when we couldn't justify the $5/ per half gallon price of true organic milk - well anyway, I read the fine print and it says the company HQ is in Chelsea, MA (a run down city neighborhood of Boston). Anyway, so much for what I had thought was a local, "pure" VT product. I'll read more carefully and maybe just find out if I can buy directly as we have some dairy farms in town.

In the Dartmouth area food prices are very high as well. We try to buy from the organic farm stands in the summer and had a CSA share last year.

REM

[VeloKev]

Originally Posted by 68vette

The closer you get to Boston or Ct for example the higher the pay. Those areas pay about twenty to twenty five dollars more an hour. Almost double what you could make in Burlington.

Wow. That's quite a disparity. We want to live in an area where my wife can have horses (see-acreage), and I can live near-ish to a city so I can have stuff to do. We're definitely an inverse "Green Acres" couple. Of course we don't want to have the crime that increases closer to major cities. So, maybe it's a pipe dream, but we'll see.

I took a pretty hard salary hit moving from South FL to North Carolina, so the insight into salary is good information. Either way, Burlingtonians seem to have slightly better salaries than we do in NC.

Thanks for the heads up!

[focail]

There are two issues with local and organic foods that makes them more expensive. One is that they are not subsidized by the federal government, unlike big corporate farms/food producers. If there was a level playing field then the big producers couldn't undercut the locals who would start getting a bigger piece of the pie, which would then lead to a drop in their prices because they'd be dealing more with volume.

The second issue is simply old fashioned greed. Retailers know that if you really want organic foods you'll pay their prices if you possibly can. Yeah, they've got me because it's mainly for my kids health and future well-being that I buy organic milk. We pay just under $5 per gallon at a gourmet food store in Des Moines for local, organic milk. The bigger grocery stores charge between 5 and 6 per gallon. Organic cheeses, unfortunately are way too high in price, so we can't usually buy those. But 95% of what we buy is organic or natural. We don't spend more than the average household for groceries though ($140 per week) because we don't buy very many convenience foods and I make most things from scratch including sandwich bread (you have to pay an arm and a leg around here in Iowa for bread without corn syrup or other chemicals).

Even though the prices of organic/local foods may be about the same in Vermont as they are here in Iowa, at least they'll be more readily available, which I am definitely looking forward to. It's hard to believe how much energy and time it takes to get natural foods here in the so-called Heartland!