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Old 04-30-2008, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,058,732 times
Reputation: 925

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Quote:
Originally Posted by flu189 View Post
Wow, quite a bit of stuff posted in the last 24 hours. The housing issues and overall employment picture in terms of positions available and wages paid is pretty much on the mark. Vermont is home to quite a substantial welfare class. Some just use the benefits out of absolute necessity with the intent of their situation being temporary, but there is also a substantial number who feel entitled to remain on the dole and display limited interest and motivation to become productive to lift themselves into a better situation. Granted, many of the rural areas present the difficulty of scarcity in employment, but even in Chittenden County with it's higher overall cost of living has plenty of college grads scrambling for wages to support themselves. In regards to consumerism, I totally agree that we have developed a culture where self gratification and keeping up with Joneses has resulted in many outspending their incomes, hence another major developing phase in credit troubles. Many are now either falling deeper into debt while seeing their credit essentially being shut off. The issue with Vermont and the actions of our representatives with their views and objectives does not sychronize with significant economic growth policy which would benefit the majority. Now with a nationwide economic downturn, inflation, and energy issues, Vermont will be even more hard pressed to be able to deal with affordable housing and luring meaningful business opportunity and growth to locate here, even if we were to review and revise our stifling regulatory and tax structures in short order. As a result the established demographic shift of young leaving and the more monied out of state second home owner and or retiree population will continue to locate here.
I agree with the above. I lived in a rural part of Central Vermont working in the healthcare field and I have to say the salaries are pitiful. I was making less per hour than my brother was in Ct doing landscaping during the summers. That's for a job that requires a collage education, a list of certifications and the responsibility of someones health and often times life. I had to move to Chittenden County in order to make a living. I feel sorry for those that don't have skills or a decent education.

You would think that if people are leaving the state there would be more jobs available, but often times it's because there are no jobs to be had after graduation or the pay is so poor. The state just doesn't have a big enough economic base. large companies tend to move to where it's going to be economically benificial.(cheaper taxes, cheaper energy costs, ect).
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:58 AM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,416,428 times
Reputation: 395
Over the past few weeks with the rising costs of jet fuel and the advent of airline mega mergers and bankruptcies I pretty much figured that air travel as we have known it will really change, limited choice, losing markets, and a sizeable segment of leisure and even business travel being priced out. Now the air execs are speaking out and what could have been perceived the handwriting on the wall is not boding well for the smaller to medium markets which Vermont is a part of. Don't be surprised to see commercial passenger flight operations out Burlington (BTV) take a major hit. Even the CEO of Jet Blue is now saying that we are rapidly getting to the saturation point where costs of operation are at a point that even if ticket prices were to rise enough allow break even status, a major segment of the population will no longer be able to afford to fly. It is amazing that the airlines are in many cases at a point where it would be cheaper for them to mothball aircraft than to fly them with full seats. Anyway, there is not much the state can do to affect BTV operations, but the effect will be felt in terms of limiting opportunity and growth.
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Old 05-01-2008, 03:54 PM
 
166 posts, read 385,855 times
Reputation: 112
Flu I will add that there is fierce competition coming out of the new Plattsburgh International Airport. Alegiantair and Myrtle Beach Direct Air are offering dirt cheap flights to Orlando/Fort Lauderdale and Myrtle Beach. A friend last week flew to Fort Lauderdale on Alegiantair for $160 round trip. The new airport is really pulling in the Canadians due to its closer location and completely free long term parking. The airport is scheduled to add many more flights due to it's close proximity to the millions in Quebec. I will also add that Plattsburgh in my opinion is doing much better economically than VT. The airport already has well established companies such as Pratt & Whitney, Bombardier, The Department of Homeland Sercurity, Commutair, Wood Group, and others. Add the under construction Plattsburgh Aernautical Institute, a major FAA aproved A & P school, and massive amounts of open space for new tenants and the airport really has a lot of potential. Nova Bus (another Canadian company like Bombardier) also just announced a new facility to provide 300 jobs to the area. According to this very site Platsburgh also has a median house value of 114K almost half of Burlington's 211k. I will also add that many friends in the trades (electricians,carpenters, plumbers, etc) in VT are all working over in Plattsburgh due to the lack of work here in VT and the growing industries and housing there.
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Old 05-01-2008, 06:55 PM
 
Location: hinesburg, vt
1,574 posts, read 4,416,428 times
Reputation: 395
Very good point considering Plattsburgh. Despite some of the expenses and quirks associated with NYS, the state does seem very willing to create real and meaningful incentives to generate growth for the North Country region. Actually, next Tuesday I need to go there so it will be interesting to see what has changed as I have not been there for a very long time.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Vermont
3,328 posts, read 8,769,368 times
Reputation: 1991
AirTran is still coming to Burlington regardless of their recent announcment of halting future expansion...
AirTran to halt expansion | burlingtonfreepress.com | The Burlington Free Press

IMO, the Plattsburg Airport will struggle to make it off the ground (sorry for the pun) for passenger service unless they land a major carrier. Southwest would be nice!!

Last edited by vter; 05-02-2008 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:10 AM
 
104 posts, read 439,219 times
Reputation: 50
Plattsburg does not have a good reputation in Montreal; Canadians still prefer the number of flights out of Burlington. A lot of complaints have been heard on radio shows north of the border.
I hope that we will get more large Canadian companies in Burlington where the new highway from St-Jean to the Vermont border gets built.
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:31 PM
 
6 posts, read 16,522 times
Reputation: 10
Getting back to housing ... some of your economic ideas are hysterical. Several years ago (well ... many years) I was stationed in Hawaii. Housing began skyrocketing - how about $1 Million for a tiny patch of dirt? The locals were outraged. There were similar demands to yours for mandatory housing caps. Some time later I found myself in Austin, Texas. Same story. Suddenly they were calling Austin the "southern riviera". Housing costs seemed to triple overnight. And once again, similar demands. People insisting that laws be passed to FORCE $700/mo rents.

Say you find yourself in the next "highly prized community". It might really be desireable or there may be some clever marketing going on (perhaps Sandra Bullock just moved nearby). People start to think, hey I might want to move there (and they create blogs like this one). Property brokers notice this and realize they can get more rent/sales. But you wield all-powerful political influence and freeze prices. Hmm... ok so now I can't sell my house and make a profit? Or maybe the government should build a row of public housing high rises along chuch street to lease for rock bottom rents? Yeah, that works real good in other cities?

Maybe your asking for more unskilled jobs, say for Lyondell Chemical or Industrial Smelting to set up shop next to Ben and Jerries?

Vermont is treasured for exactly the reason that all those things AREN'T here! Like all the highly desireable places in the world, the more desireable they become, the greater the means necessary to live there. The government (state or federal) is not responsible for supporting your desire to live whereever you choose. Likewise the government should not be required to assure that every county in every state provide housing for people of every economic level. The government DOES assure that ANYONE can CHANGE their economic level.

If you are happy with the line of work you have chosen, then live in a location where your line of work can support you. Otherwise... MOVE! Just like we had to due to inflation in desireable places like Hawaii, Austin, Miami, and D.C.
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,789 posts, read 4,058,732 times
Reputation: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by csalkows View Post
Getting back to housing ... some of your economic ideas are hysterical. Several years ago (well ... many years) I was stationed in Hawaii. Housing began skyrocketing - how about $1 Million for a tiny patch of dirt? The locals were outraged. There were similar demands to yours for mandatory housing caps. Some time later I found myself in Austin, Texas. Same story. Suddenly they were calling Austin the "southern riviera". Housing costs seemed to triple overnight. And once again, similar demands. People insisting that laws be passed to FORCE $700/mo rents.

Say you find yourself in the next "highly prized community". It might really be desireable or there may be some clever marketing going on (perhaps Sandra Bullock just moved nearby). People start to think, hey I might want to move there (and they create blogs like this one). Property brokers notice this and realize they can get more rent/sales. But you wield all-powerful political influence and freeze prices. Hmm... ok so now I can't sell my house and make a profit? Or maybe the government should build a row of public housing high rises along chuch street to lease for rock bottom rents? Yeah, that works real good in other cities?

Maybe your asking for more unskilled jobs, say for Lyondell Chemical or Industrial Smelting to set up shop next to Ben and Jerries?

Vermont is treasured for exactly the reason that all those things AREN'T here! Like all the highly desireable places in the world, the more desireable they become, the greater the means necessary to live there. The government (state or federal) is not responsible for supporting your desire to live whereever you choose. Likewise the government should not be required to assure that every county in every state provide housing for people of every economic level. The government DOES assure that ANYONE can CHANGE their economic level.

If you are happy with the line of work you have chosen, then live in a location where your line of work can support you. Otherwise... MOVE! Just like we had to due to inflation in desireable places like Hawaii, Austin, Miami, and D.C.
May of us are happy in the line of work that we do. It's just frustrating when many of us are struggling to survive or keep our heads above water. The state needs to bring in larger companies for the skilled and unskilled laborers. Vermont is like any other state in regards to labor. We can't rely on mom and pop businesses to spring up and employ the people in the state. The future of Vermont trickles away little by little every year as its young people leave collage and go to other states for employment.

I'm not sure how long you have been in Vermont, but the same is happening here(housing prices). Not to the same extent, but it is happening. Fifteen years ago I bought a four bedroom home in Central Vermont on twelve acres of land for a little over $100,000. You couldn't touch that property now for less than $300,000. Coming from Ca or Hawaii that still sounds like a deal, but not for the people who are living in the state. The people who are born and raised here have a difficult time getting a decent paying job as it is. How are they going to go out and buy a decent home on ten to fifteen dollars an hour. I don't mean to offend you, but when you come in from out of state Vermont looks very affordable. I'm from out of state as well and that's one of the reasons I moved to Vermont.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,804 posts, read 29,028,345 times
Reputation: 7390
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68vette View Post
May of us are happy in the line of work that we do. It's just frustrating when many of us are struggling to survive or keep our heads above water. The state needs to bring in larger companies for the skilled and unskilled laborers. Vermont is like any other state in regards to labor. We can't rely on mom and pop businesses to spring up and employ the people in the state. The future of Vermont trickles away little by little every year as its young people leave collage and go to other states for employment.

I'm not sure how long you have been in Vermont, but the same is happening here(housing prices). Not to the same extent, but it is happening. Fifteen years ago I bought a four bedroom home in Central Vermont on twelve acres of land for a little over $100,000. You couldn't touch that property now for less than $300,000. Coming from Ca or Hawaii that still sounds like a deal, but not for the people who are living in the state. The people who are born and raised here have a difficult time getting a decent paying job as it is. How are they going to go out and buy a decent home on ten to fifteen dollars an hour. I don't mean to offend you, but when you come in from out of state Vermont looks very affordable. I'm from out of state as well and that's one of the reasons I moved to Vermont.
What you've written is so true. Look at some of the native VTers who live in ski areas (or adjacent towns) which have been overrun with 2nd homeowners who build bigger and newer and drive up both the property values and the taxes? Coming from out-of-state with money in my pocket, the figures don't look so bad when I compare them with LI, NY. But when I take off the rose colored glasses, I can understand how that $10 an hour job which wasn't great a few years earlier isn't going as far today.

More jobs need to be created at all skill levels, yet at the same time, careful planning should be paramount to ensure that the state's natural beauty (the big tourism $$$) isn't compromised and that some of the smaller, poor towns are given an opportunity to turn around with incentives for corporations, affordable housing and land preservation.

A month or so ago there was an article in the Cottage Living magazine about a community of cottages built on a small parcel. No one had vast acreage, the homes were modest but provided the occupants with all the creature comforts one needs to survive in the 21st century. As I sat reading this, I thought to myself, "Holy cow! This would be perfect in so many regions of the country. Who needs a palatial house with heating and power bills to match?"

Imagine bringing in a large company into the outskirts of a small, down on it's luck town. Build a few small cottage communities (clustered development with more land preserved as green spaces) within the town to encourage employees to bicycle, walk or carpool -- further reducing our need for fossil fuels. The company's tax base would further help develop the town -- build schools? improve the library?

The homes were adorable, modest but comfortable and were well built. One could save when taking into consideration the significantly reduced amount of oil/kero/gas that these cottages require.

Smaller homes, postage stamp lots = lower cost housing and lower taxes = affordability. Place a covenance on these properties that they can not become rental units in order to ensure reasonably priced homes in the future.

Heck, with the price of oil and gas, those large ski McMansions might end up becoming apartment homes, much like some of the old Victorians in Chester!
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Rutland, VT
1,822 posts, read 4,522,914 times
Reputation: 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Heck, with the price of oil and gas, those large ski McMansions might end up becoming apartment homes, much like some of the old Victorians in Chester!
That's one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time!
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