[mustmove]

If you want clean lawns go live in the suburbs. Better yet the planned communities they are building in the South + Southwest. Perfect lawns all maintained by the same company. No junk cars, not even permanent RV parking allowed. Lots of little things like not putting trash cans out the night before, not storing trash cans outside next to the garage, etc. At least in the planned communities everyone has made a free choice to live there unlike zoning and such where restrictions are put on private property.

[quickdraw]

Sorry, I like it here, laws and all. You're the unhappy one, so you should probably go elsewhere and find what you want. The good news is that the places you are looking
for are always dirt cheap. You just aren't Vermont stock.

[vter]

It is in my experience that HOA rules are even more restrictive than local zoning. They can tell you what color your house has to be, what color curtains, etc. No thanks!

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Sorry, I like it here, laws and all. You're the unhappy one, so you should probably go elsewhere and find what you want. The good news is that the places you are looking
for are always dirt cheap. You just aren't Vermont stock.

I've noticed that most of the people who support the strict laws/zoning/etc. are outsiders ("flatlanders") or children of them.

[Beenaroundabit]

It is in my experience that HOA rules are even more restrictive than local zoning. They can tell you what color your house has to be, what color curtains, etc. No thanks!

I have lived in several HOA-run communities around the country and I agree - they can often be ridiculous. My wife thinks they get sillier the farther south you go, but I think it has something to do with the number of residents who have little else going on in their lives and like to complain, find problems, etc. That's just been my perception, of course.

There were no HOA's that I recall when I was growing up in Montpelier, but even the capital city was fairly "rural" back then; I don't remember too many "complexes" or distinct communities, to begin with. What I DO remember, though, was that there always seemed to be a good bit of "self-policing" going on between neighbors, at least where I lived. If your yard was in full view of your neighbor, you didn't litter it with junk. Kids picked up their toys. You took care of your property. I'm not talking about manicured lawns and picket fences, but common sense. That may be more of a hold-over attitude from an earlier time - I don't know.

There WERE areas of the town where junk abounded, but it seemed as though everyone knew where those areas were and knew what they could expect if they moved there.

Now, if we could draw a line between "silly" and "sensible" and keep it that way, I might be in favor of an HOA, but I think we - as humans - are largely incapable of that, since it requires agreement. Door and curtain-color enforcement is a bit over-the-top, in my opinion. But I'm generally in favor of any commonsense law/rule that hinders the practice of collecting trash/junk out in the open, for everyone else to have to see. I wouldn't do force anyone else to look at the fruits of my exercised "freedom," so I don't want to see theirs, either.

BTW - I am not a flatlander.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

I've noticed that most of the people who support the strict laws/zoning/etc. are outsiders ("flatlanders") or children of them.

This is true. I'm not going to open a whole can of worms about why this is the case.

[mustmove]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Sorry, I like it here, laws and all. You're the unhappy one, so you should probably go elsewhere and find what you want. The good news is that the places you are looking
for are always dirt cheap. You just aren't Vermont stock.

Partially true. I'm definitely not VT stock. But the places I'm looking for are not dirt cheap, as I intend to move into a large city. Someplace with a functioning economy- Houston would be nice. I do take exception to zoning rules that infringe on others property rights. My lawn is junk free and mowed but I have a couple of canoes and a glider trailer parked in the yard. Not junk and not ugly but certainly against zoning in some places. But if you insist on inflicting suburban sensibilities on VTer's have at it.

[vter]

Mustmove, just be sure you don't move into a "community" that has a homeowner's association-like i said above, I think you'll find that their restrictions are stricter than local zoning.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by mustmove

Partially true. I'm definitely not VT stock. But the places I'm looking for are not dirt cheap, as I intend to move into a large city. Someplace with a functioning economy- Houston would be nice. I do take exception to zoning rules that infringe on others property rights. My lawn is junk free and mowed but I have a couple of canoes and a glider trailer parked in the yard. Not junk and not ugly but certainly against zoning in some places. But if you insist on inflicting suburban sensibilities on VTer's have at it.

Houston = anti-vermont, If you like Houston you won't be happy in Vermont

[mustmove]

Present tense= Not happy in VT. VT would be OK with me if it was more business friendly. I really don't care about civil unions and naked parades. But some economic activity would be nice.