[Erma]

New England in general is not a cheap place to live, but I'd live there in a heart beat with Vermont first on my list, if I liked snow.

[brattpowered]

Originally Posted by NowOrNever

You people who live and are from Vermont are SO LUCKY. I swear I live in new jersey, not from here, but its a total disgusting state. Everything is poisonous, from the land to the water to the nerve gas in the shore not to mention the water is not only chemically polluted but full of plastic bags, needles, etc. floating around.

Now New York City is amazing and beautiful and I miss the Old New York, NY offers so much but its a total police state now and I want to go school their this fall and live their, but I really hate the police state and crime.

Out of all the states, I really want to move to either Austin, TX or Vermont once I get established. I really want to just stay in Vermont for a long time, it seems so free and like there's so much to do.

'Vermonters', tell me about Vermont more! lol

Well, I lived in Vermont for a while and now live in Austin so I can perhaps shed some light onto this for you.

Vermont is naturally beautiful and socially free-spirited for the most part. But depending on where you live you may have some difficulty finding young people (I am assuming you are young) to hang out with, as well as jobs. The cost of living in Vermont is about the same as, or higher than Austin's, but the jobs are just not there for the most part.

As far as the weather goes, it has been over 100 degrees here in Austin for a total of 36 days this year so far, and the "hot period" is just starting up now. As bad as this is, it is not as bad as a 5-6 month long gray, freezing winter that will drive you to isolation and possibly the crazy house-- especially if you live by yourself. At least here you can go swimming when it is 100+ outside.

As far as the countryside goes-- Vermont, hands-down. There is a lot of sprawl in Austin, but as soon as you leave Vermont's town centers there are miles of unspoiled pastoral and forested landscapes. Austin is also surrounded by Texas. So instead of Vermont's hippies and artisans in the woods you get cowboys and evangelicals who will shoot to kill if you trespass on their land. In contrast, a lot of private landowners in Vermont let whoever they want use their land as long as you respect it. Also, there are some nice swimming holes in Austin but they are slowly getting encroached on and polluted by the sprawl.

Overall, I like Vermont more than Austin, but Austin is a better place for where I am in life. When I find someone to settle down with, I want to find a place and raise my family in Vermont. But being young, single and without a lot of cash to throw around, Austin is a better fit for me right now.

[pucabear]

Anti-Flatlander, Anti-Business, Anti-_____________ (fill in the blank)...I am so glad that I moved from Vermont a year ago.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by pucabear

Anti-Flatlander, Anti-Business, Anti-_____________ (fill in the blank)...I am so glad that I moved from Vermont a year ago.

Guess it worked, one less flatlander.

[pucabear]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Guess it worked, one less flatlander.

My point exactly...

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Guess it worked, one less flatlander.

Haha. Touche`.

[mustmove]

Originally Posted by pucabear

My point exactly...

Let them have VT all to themselves. VT as a closed society -sure that'll work. Lowest birthrate in the nation. Remember kids if your business, town, state, etc isn't growing then it's dying. Michigan has houses for sale for less than 20k with yearly property taxes over 10k. MI is dead, VT is dying. Being a parasite on the wealth of metro NY only works for so long. Whatever the hillylanders seem to want it this way.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by mustmove

Let them have VT all to themselves. VT as a closed society -sure that'll work. Lowest birthrate in the nation. Remember kids if your business, town, state, etc isn't growing then it's dying. Michigan has houses for sale for less than 20k with yearly property taxes over 10k. MI is dead, VT is dying. Being a parasite on the wealth of metro NY only works for so long. Whatever the hillylanders seem to want it this way.

Unlimited growth isn't a good thing. Constant growth isn't needed. Eventually things come crashing down like the population of lemmings with constant growth, once the resources can't support it. Not everyone wants to live in a place like NY, MA, NJ, etc., places not too far away that are all over-developed, over-crowded, the result of constant growth. People have this mindset though, centered on economics. People think only in terms of money. Personally, I'm more in favor of a subsistence "economy" than what exists now. In other words, subsistence not profit and growth drives things. But people are so convinced they need so much due to the consumerism, it won't happen willingly. Wait until oil is even less affordable/becomes more scarce, or maybe rural areas simply withold food from the big cities...all of a sudden things come apart and those highly developed cities that people are so fond of, and the consumerist lifestyle, turns into hell.

Actually places like NYC (and other large urban areas) are the true parasites I think. They suck up resources in vast quantities (food, energy, building materials, etc.), and produce little of true value in return. Then the ignorant people in them (ignorant in many ways, including regarding food, the natural world, etc.), completely detached from the real world, try to force their silly notions (like gun control, taxes and big government, anti-hunting and trapping, etc.) on everyone else. I've heard from a lot of people in rural upstate NY who despise NYC for these reasons.

VT's biggest problem is taxes. A lack of high-paying jobs isn't such a problem when you don't have those high taxes to pay. Property taxes are the worst kind of tax. I could, given enough land, survive almost entirely on my own, providing my own food, heat, etc., but if there are taxes on that property, I'd be homeless in short order if unable to pay the taxes. Taxes are on of my main reasons for looking elsewhere. No taxes at all on my Alaska property.

[mustmove]

Are you going to make your own firearms, tools and clothes? People working together create growth and wealth(and health). I don't mind folks going off and living like you are planning to, and I agree with you re:taxes and gun laws. However a subsistence existence does not create anything either for yourself family or society. Are city folks ignorant of farming? some of them but then VT farming is a joke, not reality, it is a tiny portion of VT's economy and an insignificant contributor of food. Sorry but back to the earth is just voluntary poverty. Enjoy it while young, it'll get old some day.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by mustmove

Are you going to make your own firearms, tools and clothes? People working together create growth and wealth(and health). I don't mind folks going off and living like you are planning to, and I agree with you re:taxes and gun laws. However a subsistence existence does not create anything either for yourself family or society. Are city folks ignorant of farming? some of them but then VT farming is a joke, not reality, it is a tiny portion of VT's economy and an insignificant contributor of food. Sorry but back to the earth is just voluntary poverty. Enjoy it while young, it'll get old some day.

You're still thinking in terms of money/capitalism. A subsistence economy/society doesn't mean everyone has to do everything. One could make guns, another tools, etc., but as they're needed, not in the consumerist/capitalist mindset of make more and more and more for the sake of money. The point is, instead of this mindset that's focused on profit and constant growth (constant growth is not sustainable by any means), a better system would provide what's needed and that's it. Somewhat like the small villages before big empires and cities came about. Though, I have made some of my own guns, I've done a little blacksmithing of my own, and I'm going to give it a try making some clothes out of the furs I catch in AK. You have it backwards, because a consumerist/capitalist society only creates more garbage for landfills, poverty, and numerous other problems ranging from pollution to depletion of resources.