[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Unlimited growth isn't a good thing. Constant growth isn't needed. Eventually things come crashing down like the population of lemmings with constant growth, once the resources can't support it. Not everyone wants to live in a place like NY, MA, NJ, etc., places not too far away that are all over-developed, over-crowded, the result of constant growth. People have this mindset though, centered on economics. People think only in terms of money. Personally, I'm more in favor of a subsistence "economy" than what exists now. In other words, subsistence not profit and growth drives things. But people are so convinced they need so much due to the consumerism, it won't happen willingly. Wait until oil is even less affordable/becomes more scarce, or maybe rural areas simply withold food from the big cities...all of a sudden things come apart and those highly developed cities that people are so fond of, and the consumerist lifestyle, turns into hell.

Actually places like NYC (and other large urban areas) are the true parasites I think. They suck up resources in vast quantities (food, energy, building materials, etc.), and produce little of true value in return. Then the ignorant people in them (ignorant in many ways, including regarding food, the natural world, etc.), completely detached from the real world, try to force their silly notions (like gun control, taxes and big government, anti-hunting and trapping, etc.) on everyone else. I've heard from a lot of people in rural upstate NY who despise NYC for these reasons.

I have to agree with what you've written. More goes into the large cities than comes out of them, and what comes out of them inevitably destroys whatever is in it's path. Long Island being the perfect example. The sad part is that the more time I spend in Vermont, I see a very gradual shift toward policies which will ultimately destroy Vermont, much like LI is being destroyed.

LI still has some nice areas, but they are gradually succumbing to developers and to residents with very bad taste. Long Island is looking more and more like the 6th borough of NYC; it is so sad.

Poor planning and greed brought LI to this low place. Vermont residents need to be careful and not let developers run roughshod over them.

Controlled growth is good; everything else is poison.

VT's biggest problem is taxes. A lack of high-paying jobs isn't such a problem when you don't have those high taxes to pay. Property taxes are the worst kind of tax. I could, given enough land, survive almost entirely on my own, providing my own food, heat, etc., but if there are taxes on that property, I'd be homeless in short order if unable to pay the taxes. Taxes are on of my main reasons for looking elsewhere. No taxes at all on my Alaska property.

Taxes are most certainly the biggest problem.

[mustmove]

OK it's settled you folks live around other folks that don't want growth here in new england and I'll go live with pro growth folks somewhere else. Oh and we need to stop federal redistribuition of taxes so states don't get more or less than they pay to the federal gov't.

[pucabear]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

I have to agree with what you've written. More goes into the large cities than comes out of them, and what comes out of them inevitably destroys whatever is in it's path. Long Island being the perfect example. The sad part is that the more time I spend in Vermont, I see a very gradual shift toward policies which will ultimately destroy Vermont, much like LI is being destroyed.

LI still has some nice areas, but they are gradually succumbing to developers and to residents with very bad taste. Long Island is looking more and more like the 6th borough of NYC; it is so sad.

Poor planning and greed brought LI to this low place. Vermont residents need to be careful and not let developers run roughshod over them.

Controlled growth is good; everything else is poison.




Taxes are most certainly the biggest problem.

Believe it or not there is a happy medium between Vermont and Long Island or any other big area.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by pucabear

Believe it or not there is a happy medium between Vermont and Long Island or any other big area.

Show me the medium....

Seriously, VT can reach that medium with proper planning, but it should just use LI as an example of what NOT to do.

[pucabear]

I hear what you are saying. Although, I guess everyone's happy "medium" is a little different. I definitely have found mine, and learned a lot in the process.

[quickdraw]

My move to Vermont has been an epiphany. Because I don't have a ton of cash I live in a small place and drive a couple of old cars. I've been forced to give up a more luxurious lifestyle, and you know what? I'm happier than ever. I live in a very small log cabin, which five years ago would have seem unacceptable. Now I wonder what the heck I was doing in such a big house before.

Cars? I don't care who makes them or what they look like as long as they get up my driveway. Instead of sitting in suburban traffic I can drive at a nice pace and see the Adirindacks to my left and the Green Mountains to my right. I sit on my porch in the morning and just enjoy nature. It's peaceful, it's serene and it's what I was made for (not to mention its free). I can breathe. It's as if a weight was lifted from my shoulder.

Meanwhile people all over the country are going into debt and working overtime to buy a BMW instead of a Honda so their neighbors won't think they are poor. Buying palaces that do nothing but ensure family members don't have to sit near each other. Commuting 90 minutes to work, stuck in a sea of red and white headlights. You know, the American dream. As Suze Orman says, "trying to impress people you don't know or even like".

Yeah the taxes are high here, so get a small place. You know, maybe the size of houses in every country in the world except America. Drive a cheaper car. Give up a few material items so you bask in the beauty of this place.

Yeah, we probably get suckered by a few freeloaders, but we do our best to help those in need. I'd rather err in this direction.

Vermonters like to talk about flatlanders, but flatlanders are the ones that actually choose to live here. And are happy here. Half of the native electricians, furnace guys etc that come to my house tell me they can't
wait to leave. I have never heard such conspiracy theories about politicians. My advice would be to leave. See the rest of the world.
You'll soon see Vermont has a lot to offer.

Yeah I would love to see laws that would require people clean up their yards, out of the respect to the land, which IS Vermont. I couldn't care less who's on the deed. I don't care about anyone's rights. If you want to talk about rights and the pursuit of happiness, how about the right to not live by homes with rusty bedsprings and rusty refrigerators in the front yard. I'm willing to give up some of my freedom to make sure we look after this place. I love Vermont and want to keep it beautiful.

I'm back to basics not because I was disciplined enough to give up everything, I had to make a few adjustments. I have plenty to eat and live in a palace, compared to most of the world. I get a kick out of buying local foods and helping another family. When I'm on my deathbed I won't be thinking about money or stock. I'll think about sitting on the porch with my wife every moring and just being blown away by the beauty of it all.

This place has been a blessing.

[tkln]

Thank you. I hope you don't mind, but I just printed a copy of that. Sometimes I forget the core reasons why I'm moving. That post will be a great reminder.

[mustmove]

I'm speechless and motivated to get back to prepping the house for market.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by mustmove

I'm speechless and motivated to get back to prepping the house for market.

My work is done here.

Enjoy Houston, may your cup overflow with Denny's Grand Slam Breakfasts and Olive Garden breadsticks.

[mustmove]

Yummy Denny's. The selling of VT as a gourmet food destination cracks me up. The food here is mediocre at best, hell mediocre should be VT's motto.