[925mine]

If you are intrusive, and try to make a community different to suit yourself, then yes, there is a LOT of tension. Depends on the size of the community, and population. Near Burlington, there are mostly people who have transplanted, but move out to the more rural areas, and you have to work harder to fit in. If you choose an area that best fits what you are looking for, you shouldn't have any problems, but if you go into an area and try to change it to suit you, then forget it.

[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Depends on your attitude. Yes, there are tensions (usually) below the surface (and sometimes not so below the surface) in VT but not necessarily with every flatlander. The ones who've done so much damage to the state by trying to make it like elsewhere and by pricing locals out of property are the cause of the bad feelings, and it can spill over to comments about all flatlanders in general but, don't try to mess with things, be friendly, and you'll probably get the same in return from most (there'll be some exceptions I'm sure). You know there is a reason for the "silent Cal" nickname one of our presidents earned, you may find people here a little less chatty/social than someone in the South perhaps, but don't interpret it as being mean or anything...

And oh yeah, hunting incidents: seems a lot of them are from "flatlanders." If I remember correctly, the farmer who was shot while he was sitting in his tractor was shot by a flatlander who was fooling around while hunting. But considering how many people hunt and how few accidents there are there isn't a reason to get too worried. Maybe wear hunter orange when out in the woods that time of year. Don't freak out or make a "man with a gun" call to the police if you even see people carrying guns outside of hunting season, unless they're obviously acting aggressive or such...all the flatlanders who make phone calls to the police every time they see a person carrying a gun gets really old fast...and when the police dept. has started hiring flatlanders (from MA no less) who hate people carrying guns, annoyance starts turning into threats of lawsuits...

Now that I have lived in this state for a bit, I can say I am so proud to be a "flatlander". If the word "flatlander" was in Webster's dictionary, the definition of the word would have to be "a friendly caring person, someone that shows emotion, a human being that doesn't blame everyone else for their troubles, a person that judges people by how they treat others, not by where they came from".

Flatlanders are responsible for a lot of the hunting incidents? Is this fact or just your opinion? Are all the deer poachers flatlanders too? I do know the only deer killed on my POSTED property was shot by three locals road hunting.

I would like to know why native VTers spend so much time worrying about flatlanders coming to VT and changing it. If nobody is doing anything illegal, why are locals so threatened by outsiders? Did you ever think that maybe we once lived this rural lifestyle but were pushed out of the area where we had roots because it became to urban for us to live comfortably? I would say for every flatlander that comes to this state trying to change it, you will find three flatlanders that don't want this state to change. I am not threatened by locals in VT. I want to listen to them and learn everything I can because they know this land much better then I. I do think that locals should stop covering their ears to flatlanders because they can learn a thing or two also. Most flatlanders escaped from an area of overpopulation, overdevelopment and off-the-wall tax increases. The locals that I hear complaining about the high taxes have never been to a Town Meeting? The locals I do see there want to raise taxes. They get mad when the flatlander gets up and tries to explain why he doesn't feel taxes need to go higher....not just for himself, but for the locals also. I just don't understand where all this finger pointing is coming from.

You state not to interpret a local VTer as being mean because they are less chatty/social. When I start a simple conversation with a stranger standing next to me and the response I get is that blank expressionless stare, I would say that is pretty mean. Nine out of ten times it is a woman and always a native VTer. My husband is the friendliest person on this earth. In his line of work, he meets people everyday. He comes home and tells me stories about how people treat him and I just can't get over it. The nice ones make up for it though. I'm living here long enough to be able to look at a person and tell if they are going to be friendly.

My father used to say "I don't look down at anyone, but I don't look up to them either." I try to live my life by that quote.

[vter]

NYlier...I'm curious about your experiences you talk about toward the end of your post regarding the social nature of a lot of Vermonters as my experience is the complete opposite. What kind of situations have you been in when you experience this? I admit I'd be taken aback if some random stranger just started conversing with me in the grocery line for example, but I certainly would not be rude about it. People value their privacy and some folks probably find it really uncomfortable to have someone they don't know start to have a conversation with them in a non-social setting. Maybe the people you mention have just been a little surprised and taken aback? I dunno! I deal with strangers all day along at my job and find most to be very pleasant. Of course you are going to find rude people anywhere.
I live strongly by the mantra that one should treat others as they would like to be treated. Sounds like you do too which makes you a-OK in my book

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by NYLIER

Flatlanders are responsible for a lot of the hunting incidents? Is this fact or just your opinion? Are all the deer poachers flatlanders too? I do know the only deer killed on my POSTED property was shot by three locals road hunting.

Many of the worst accidents in recent years have been outsiders. I wasn't referring to poaching, that's been going on for years. That's a different and complex subject. I'm thinking of, for example, the farmer shot and killed while sitting in his tractor by a flatlander who thought he'd use the tractor (which eh thought was empty) for target practice.

I would like to know why native VTers spend so much time worrying about flatlanders coming to VT and changing it. If nobody is doing anything illegal, why are locals so threatened by outsiders? Did you ever think that maybe we once lived this rural lifestyle but were pushed out of the area where we had roots because it became to urban for us to live comfortably? I would say for every flatlander that comes to this state trying to change it, you will find three flatlanders that don't want this state to change. I am not threatened by locals in VT. I want to listen to them and learn everything I can because they know this land much better then I. I do think that locals should stop covering their ears to flatlanders because they can learn a thing or two also. Most flatlanders escaped from an area of overpopulation, overdevelopment and off-the-wall tax increases. The locals that I hear complaining about the high taxes have never been to a Town Meeting? The locals I do see there want to raise taxes. They get mad when the flatlander gets up and tries to explain why he doesn't feel taxes need to go higher....not just for himself, but for the locals also. I just don't understand where all this finger pointing is coming from.

I don't think you realize how much the state has been changed by flatlanders in the past 3 or 4 decades. Many of them came in as hippies and stayed. The state got flooded with socialists. Then there's the elitists from some other states who think of VT as their playground. It is perhaps unfair to bunch all flatlanders together, because there are different groups they can be classified into, but such has happened. A lot of us have been priced out of this state by the outsiders who come with more money than most VT'ers will ever have to spend, and you better believe that creates bitterness. Not only the price of property but the taxes that go with having a million dollar mcmansion next door to one's little old house or cabin. Suddenly a shack on a few acres is worth an ungodly amount according to the tax people. There are definately natives in favor of this socialist garbage but do go back a bit and see if some of the seemingly "natives" doing so aren't actually children of flatlanders. I know many flatlanders have come to escape overdevelopment and such elsewhere, but they bring with them those problems even if unintentionally. They don't want that city stuff but, oh, street lights would be nice, paving would make things safer, oh why aren't the roads cleared of snow better, I don't want my neighbor's property looking messy, and on it goes...

You state not to interpret a local VTer as being mean because they are less chatty/social. When I start a simple conversation with a stranger standing next to me and the response I get is that blank expressionless stare, I would say that is pretty mean. Nine out of ten times it is a woman and always a native VTer. My husband is the friendliest person on this earth. In his line of work, he meets people everyday. He comes home and tells me stories about how people treat him and I just can't get over it. The nice ones make up for it though. I'm living here long enough to be able to look at a person and tell if they are going to be friendly.

I can't judge for sure on this because I have no idea where you are, how you come across, etc. I haven't normally seen that level of being standoffish, though I know many (myself included) who don't care to get into long conversations with strangers, a simple hello or something may be the most...heck, even my conversations with friends may seem a bit short/blunt to some.

I find it interesting most of the bad experiences you have are with women, I always thought VT women were a lot more social/outgoing than VT men as a whole. Been my experience, all the women I know make me and all my male friends look downright anti-social.

And BTW, you won't find myself or most native VT'ers outright being rude towards flatlanders, most of the time (though I did come out and tell a rude woman from NJ who called me a redneck, that she was a flatlander and should leave the state, I have some choice words for a flatlander who got the police to harrass me over carrying a gun, and lastly, I wish a particular flatlander working as a police officer in Rutland would go back to MA for his attitude towards our Constitution and rights here where firearms are concerned).

[pucabear]

From personal experience, I dealt with the "flatlander" comments many times while living in Vermont. It wasn't just in the rural areas, because I heard them while working in Burlington. Sure, some of it was said in a "just joking" manner....but isn't there always truth underlying that type of humor

It seems ridiculous to classify people in those terms. The fact that America was established by people who were true "natives" and everyone else from everywhere else, makes it seem a little silly.

[Lilybeans]

I'll tell you my flatlander experiences. The first time I ever went to Vermont was to go to school. While I was there, my family found a house and bought it. It was a part time vacation/business place, but it was home to me.

The locals were always friendly and nice. Even though I did not grow up there, it was the first place that ever felt like home for me. It still does. I ended up moving to Florida. My family is still there, and some of my siblings live in Vermont, and raise their kids there.

We always wanted to move back and a while ago we bought some land in the Kingdom. I like it there-people leave you alone and there is some peace and breathing room. Everyone I've ever dealt with there has been friendly. I have no problems with people.

I think country people are more reserved-no kissing every time you see someone, no constant hugging. I like that. I don't like feeling like a guppy in a feeding tank.

I like the freedom to shoot guns when I feel like it. They don't scare me. The first thing we did when we bought our land was to rip down the previous owners posted signs. I don't care if someone hunts my land. Have at it. I trust people not to shoot at my house during season.

I'll always be a flatlander. Nothing I can do about it, but I guarantee I won't try to change anything. I just want to be left alone and I will leave others alone. I've made plenty of good friends in Vermont and will make more.

I guess the bottom line is don't worry about it. If people want to like you, they will. If they don't , they won't. But don't confuse reserved with mean. I don't want to be all chatty.

[Alt Dach]

[quote=NYLIER;5115391]Now that I have lived in this state for a bit, I can say I am so proud to be a "flatlander". If the word "flatlander" was in Webster's dictionary, the definition of the word would have to be "a friendly caring person, someone that shows emotion, a human being that doesn't blame everyone else for their troubles, a person that judges people by how they treat others, not by where they came from".

Flatlanders are responsible for a lot of the hunting incidents? Is this fact or just your opinion? Are all the deer poachers flatlanders too? I do know the only deer killed on my POSTED property was shot by three locals road hunting.


I'm sorry people poached on your posted land,thats against the law and
they should not have done that !
However, belive it or not, any native Vermonter over say ,65,can remember a time when posting land in VT was almost unheard of
and was considerd a hostile act.
That doesn't excuse the folks who tresspassed on you,but in some places
in VT road hunting is popular because there is little land left a working guy
can hunt on.

[NYLIER]

Originally posted by arctichomesteader

I can't judge for sure on this because I have no idea where you are, how you come across, etc. I haven't normally seen that level of being standoffish, though I know many (myself included) who don't care to get into long conversations with strangers, a simple hello or something may be the most...heck, even my conversations with friends may seem a bit short/blunt to some.

I find it interesting most of the bad experiences you have are with women, I always thought VT women were a lot more social/outgoing than VT men as a whole. Been my experience, all the women I know make me and all my male friends look downright anti-social.

And BTW, you won't find myself or most native VT'ers outright being rude towards flatlanders, most of the time (though I did come out and tell a rude woman from NJ who called me a redneck, that she was a flatlander and should leave the state,

Originally posted by vter

NYlier...I'm curious about your experiences you talk about toward the end of your post regarding the social nature of a lot of Vermonters as my experience is the complete opposite. What kind of situations have you been in when you experience this?

I must give everyone the impression that I talk a lot LOL. Actually, I am the complete opposite. I am extremely shy and that, and the high gas prices, are probably the reason I stay home so much. VT women are a lot more social...to the men, not other women!!!

We used to go to the restaurant in Town quite often, until we got tired of giving business to the owner (female) who would come up to our table and only look at my husband when she spoke. If I tried to get in on the conversation, she would give me some sarcastic remark or a nasty look and continue talking to my husband. We go to a post office in the nx town because it seems it is to much for the postal clerk in our Town to return a smile and "Good Morning" when we walk in.
Two receptionists at the vet's office are almost as rude as the postal clerk. They are getting better.
We lease land from a local who we have known since we moved here. I drove up to him as he was chatting with my husband, smiled and said hello. He looked at me and said nothing. (Let me add that I may look like the type of woman that doesn't like dirt under her nails, but everyone is well aware that I am out on the tractors haying those fields & throwing bales just like my hubby.)

Another local came over and asked me to speak to my husband about getting his son a job. The parents came over and instead of thanking us for hiring their son, they told us how lucky my husband was to have their son work for him.

This happened to my husband a few weeks ago....he went to make a delivery. When he spoke to the woman of the home, she told my husband that her husband was in the garage and just to open the garage door. He opens the door and this guy is standing in front of him, saying not a word. My husband said "Hi" and this guy just stood looking down at him. Said not one word!! Did not move, did not smile!! He said he was like the butler in The Adams Family.

I must admit that it is getting easier. I think I am adjusting to the difference in personalities from where I lived before. I did come from a world where everyone kisses and hugs the first time they meet you. I learned the hard embarrassing way not to do that in Vermont.

Vter, I have more stories, but I'll save them for the nx response to an anti-flatlander post.

Originally posted by Alt Dach

in some places in VT road hunting is popular because there is little land left a working guy can hunt on.

Maybe we should blame the working guy and not the coyote for the lack of deer in VT.

[Phoenix lady]

Wow--above post makes you think--Is this the norm in Vt.? Even people not talking in grocery lines, simple chit chat, like a one-liner is not too common??

[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by Phoenix lady

Wow--above post makes you think--Is this the norm in Vt.? Even people not talking in grocery lines, simple chit chat, like a one-liner is not too common??

Sometimes I don't run into people like that. I went to the VT State Fair a few days ago and everyone was pleasant. Everytime I go to TJMaxx the the employees are very friendly. Most waitresses are very nice. I have changed in some ways to fit in better. I don't wear as much makeup as I used too. I can't remember the last time I wore my pretty high heels. You can say I have toned myself down so I don't look out of place. Simplified is the word. I am not one to start a major conversation with someone on line. For example, if a grocery line is slow or long and there aren't any other cash registers open, I wouldn't say anything to the person nx to me, like "Do you know what is holding the line up" because you probably will not get a response. (I never said that but I'm using it as an example) Vermonters don't seem to be the type that want to small talk with strangers, not even about the weather. Actually, sometimes it can be quite humorous.