[harry chickpea]

"I was just reading the Police Log in the Brattleboro Reformer and was struck by the lenient treatment that violent criminals receive. Two years for attempted murder? Perpetrators of violent domestic assaults let out of jail on the condition that they do not contact or abuse their victims?

I am simply shocked. Where are these judges coming from? "

You sound like Louie in "Casablanca." I'm not shocked. Most of the times the judges are just doing their jobs.

Consider the small population of the state. Consider the cost of incarceration to the public - on the order of $20,000 to $50,000 per year. Consider that an attempted murder may be a charge written down by a LEO when assault might be a more accurate description. Consider that domestic disputes don't often affect the general public. If a woman shoots her husband for cheating, that doesn't mean she will shoot you for cutting in front of her in the grocery store. Consider that after a break in a relationship, due to more than a few months of jail time, a lot of numb-nuts will wise up, slap their palm to their forehead, and say "Hey, I'm better off on my own and not around that loser. Why the hell didin't I think of that?" Sometimes all it takes is that forced separation of the two parties to have them get on with their lives.

Yeah, the news media and the people with black and white thinking would have you believe that anyone in jail is an incorrigible pocked-faced sleeze-ball thief and murderer, who will drool on your daughter before he rapes her and shoots the family dog. Many, if not most, of the people behind bars are there because they let their emotions get out of hand, are stupid, can't handle their recreational drug of choice, or a combination of those. Not everyone deserves to remain locked up at the expense of taxpayers. THat is why they call judges judges. They have to make prudent decisions that aren't always liked by everyone with an agenda.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, has the potential to be a criminal. I forced the son of a sheriff to turn himself in for stealing from the company I worked for. He was young, needed money, and stupid. Better for him to address the problem and move on than waste my time and the time of a bunch of attorneys, when he could man up to his own error and move on.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

Check the penalty on that though-$25 fine. You have to get the Federal stamp though.

Any crime committed with an NFA item (any, even with a $25 fine) is a federal crime (felony) with hefty penalties. So I'm not going to try to buy one in another state and smuggle it in...

[arel]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

"I was just reading the Police Log in the Brattleboro Reformer and was struck by the lenient treatment that violent criminals receive. Two years for attempted murder? Perpetrators of violent domestic assaults let out of jail on the condition that they do not contact or abuse their victims?

I am simply shocked. Where are these judges coming from? "

You sound like Louie in "Casablanca." I'm not shocked. Most of the times the judges are just doing their jobs.

Consider the small population of the state. Consider the cost of incarceration to the public - on the order of $20,000 to $50,000 per year. Consider that an attempted murder may be a charge written down by a LEO when assault might be a more accurate description. Consider that domestic disputes don't often affect the general public. If a woman shoots her husband for cheating, that doesn't mean she will shoot you for cutting in front of her in the grocery store. Consider that after a break in a relationship, due to more than a few months of jail time, a lot of numb-nuts will wise up, slap their palm to their forehead, and say "Hey, I'm better off on my own and not around that loser. Why the hell didin't I think of that?" Sometimes all it takes is that forced separation of the two parties to have them get on with their lives.

Yeah, the news media and the people with black and white thinking would have you believe that anyone in jail is an incorrigible pocked-faced sleeze-ball thief and murderer, who will drool on your daughter before he rapes her and shoots the family dog. Many, if not most, of the people behind bars are there because they let their emotions get out of hand, are stupid, can't handle their recreational drug of choice, or a combination of those. Not everyone deserves to remain locked up at the expense of taxpayers. THat is why they call judges judges. They have to make prudent decisions that aren't always liked by everyone with an agenda.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, has the potential to be a criminal. I forced the son of a sheriff to turn himself in for stealing from the company I worked for. He was young, needed money, and stupid. Better for him to address the problem and move on than waste my time and the time of a bunch of attorneys, when he could man up to his own error and move on.

Good points. I wasn't even thinking of the financial cost to the state, and to the taxpayers.

BTW, what do NFA and LEO mean?

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by arel

Good points. I wasn't even thinking of the financial cost to the state, and to the taxpayers.

BTW, what do NFA and LEO mean?

NFA - National Firearms Act
LEO - Law Enforcement Officer

[flu189]

I remember the Goetz incident from 1984 very well and also remember that an incredible number of people were definitely on his side. In the 70s into the 80s random and violent street crime was out of control and Goetz dealt with a group of thugs on the subway who were going to rob him or even worse. The only political issue of that case was that he was white and his assailants were black and it was being portrayed as a vigilante incident. Goetz was no Charles Bronson in the 1974 movie "Death Wish" who went out looking for thugs to take down. It was a one time deal and a few days after the incident after he left the city he did turn himself in up in Concord, NH. I remember very well the banners of "Viva la Vigilante" and can understand the utter frustration and fear the law abiding public had at the time. It was no fault of the police in NYC at the time, the system had evolved such to promote leniency and the criminal element flourished.

[flu189]

Being on the topic of crime and dangerous criminals it was interesting to read tonight of last nights incident in Burlington were numerous individuals dressed alike (Gang, maybe?) beat and stabbed an individual in the street. Seems an arrest in the case was made. Will be interesting to see how the DA handles this and what the outcome will be. With the increasing frequency of such violent incidents here in Vermont maybe we will get a group of concerned citizens to develop a court watch program and also maybe the media will get on board and report to the public the status of such cases from start to conclusion.

[flu189]

Interesting comment concerning the cost to the state concerning dealing with serious criminals. Maybe I am a bit tired and misread, but I sure hope we don't get the attitude that because it costs so much incarcerate an individual we need to keep playing the game of catch and release. Over the course of my career before retiring I effected several hundred felony arrests, many for repeat offenders of violent crimes. I know I really did not want to be in the DA's or judges shoes when a repeat offender who should have been locked up victimized another individual or family. I did my job, then the ball got passed on. Regarding arrests, I don't know how it goes in Vermont, but where I was I surely could not inflate or embellish a criminal charge at the time of arrest, i.e. charging somebody with a Class A Felony when in reality it could have been a lesser offense. Prior to pre-trial remand and the setting of bail conditions when a person is arrested I had to appear before a magistrate and the elements of the offense had to satisfy the criteria of the statute under the law. Hence, I could not "trump" up or "stack" excessive and baloney charges. I will check with the officers I know here in Vermont, but my hunch is that even though we may be a bit more less structured, the basic premise from arrest, charging, to remand will be very similar.

[MTK1]

A friend of mine knows someone who is a Burlington cop. He said that the Burlington police is severly short staffed with over a dozen officers leaving this year alone. He also has a friend who is a VT state trooper and they are severly short staffed as well as facing major budget issues. He says many of the officers he knows who have left have done so because of the low pay of officers here.

An older article on the topic.

Public Safety: Money, troopers in short supply

February 21, 2008

MONTPELIER – The Vermont State Police may soon be in tough shape, without more money and more troopers, some state officials worry.

Although its funding has been increased, the Department of Public Safety – which includes the state police – has discovered there is more than $2.5 million less in the budget proposed by the governor for the upcoming fiscal year than it will likely need.

And there are 27 vacancies within the ranks of the troopers and no new officers among the class now being trained at the Vermont Police Academy.

Meanwhile, the demands on the state police have been growing. From the search for a missing Middlebury College student to recent drug violence in Rutland and the anti-narcotics raid called "Operation Granite Streets" in Barre in 2006, troopers have been called on to work with local police around Vermont. Dozens of vacancies in local police forces also put demands on the troopers, officials said.

At the same time, the Vermont State Police and local agencies – like forces across the country – have had a hard time recruiting and keeping officers.

Public Safety: Money, troopers in short supply: Times Argus Online

[flu189]

While it is true that law enforcement jobs in Vt pay little, this is just one of several factors why there is a high turnover rate. Even if pay scales were to be raised some other major issues which disrupt morale would continue to lead to turnover. I know several individuals who have quit their LE jobs here, one I just found out about yesterday. I might add also that none of them worked for the same agency, but their discontent and frustration with the job, not career, were all very similar.

[Alt Dach]

Prisoners cost money,VT has had to send them out to other statesa lot-VA in particular.