[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by mustmove

I don't have a problem spending money on law enforcement but More or better LE jobs is not the answer to the state's demographic problems. VT can't afford to spend more without cutting a lot, and cutting is off the table. In theory it's easy to keep young people here, just let stuff get built. As long as VT remains anti business and high tax the state will continue to die. Worse for VT is that the high utility people are the first to leave which lowers tax revenue and leaves space for more consumers of public services.

I didn't intend for the post to sound as though I believe more better paying LE jobs would retain young people. What I tried to state (and failed at miserably) is that seeing as young people are leaving the state, LE doesn't attract the applicants it once did which is creating the unfillable vacancies. I was trying to explain why I would support lateral transfers as a temporary solution.


I am in agreement with what you've posted re: the state's anti business stance and high taxes.

[MTK1]

On the topic of LE in Vermont. From todays news.

[SIZE=3]Local Police Departments Forced to Expand Territories[/SIZE]


Lyndonville, Vermont - September 8, 2008

It's easy for Lyndonville Police Chief Jack Harris to sum up his summer with just a few words.

"Busy, very busy."

With the Vermont State Police strapped for manpower, they're asking town police across the region to pick up more coverage. The hope is that this will free up the State Police to answer more calls in rural areas that don't have a department.
Moderator cut: per the TOS, please post only the first couple of lines of an article, then the link.

WCAX.COM Local Vermont News, Weather and Sports-Local Police Departments Forced to Expand Territories

[flu189]

Quite a few places experiment with trying to induce lateral LE hires. My old department never used it insisting that everybody go through the entire hiring, FTO, and certification process. But then a few years ago they did an about face because with tighter budgets, more retirements and turnover, etc, they discovered it would be cheaper as they dropped the full requirements for new hires. The only problem with trying to entice laterals is that unless you have something tangable to offer in terms of pay, benefits, future retirement plans, and in general a good working environment minus the chronic political BS, then you will not even retain these laterals. I had to laugh recently when I read some higher up with the Burlington police even made reference to the fact they have no upper age limit in hopes to generate interest. Granted, Burlington presents much less stress both physical and mental than major cities, but the very nature of law enforcement work is not something you want to undertake in later middle age and older. The job is not a hobby. This posture is simply indicitive that a qualified, interested, and suitable core group traditional for the job does not exist to draw from. Even with the best recruiting intentions Vermont LE agencies just don't have the capability to offer what it takes to get locals and especially laterals to apply in numbers and then stay on the job. Our state police still does not offer 24 hour coverage and only has a little over 300 personnel to cover the entire state which includes detectives. Given our spending habits and priorities to where tax dollars go it will take a very long time if ever to fund law enforcement, DAs, and corrections/probation/parole to the levels they should be.

[mustmove]

Right and if they ever did the NEA would be crying that it is their money going to LE.

[Pilot1]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

You're going to laugh -- I was born in the Bronx, to parents who were born there, too. Dad was NYPD. My folks fled the Bronx for LI during the late 60's.

Interesting. I would not have guessed that, but the NYPD probably had a influence. I know LI a little bit, but would never thought it had a decent amount of conservative inhabitants. However, I realize that as a country we are strongly divided and its a close margin, so even in the liberal N.E. there has to be some conservatives left.

[Evan_Lanctot]

I was the victim of an arson fire in April 2007 in Essex Junction. The owner of the apartment building I lived in hired a kid to torch the place in an effort to try to scam the insurance company. The kid was caught but has yet to face trial and has even been released under house arrest. The owner was never charged, even though the kid more or less confessed due to lack of evidence.

Does this tell you how wacky Vermont is about perpetrators of violent crime?!?!

Evan

[Ann Alison]

It's the left wing who don't understand there are consequences to every decision. They move to VT and think, "nice place, let's change it" and then wonder what happened. What happened is the drug dealers moved in to Burlington and the violent criminals moved in because the system is lenient because the liberals elected the worst legislature in history and the absolute worst judges got appointed who "wouldn't have been elected dogcatchers," according to one mag. Good luck; I'm never coming back. It's no longer Vermont; it's New Jersey.

[flu189]

There was a short blurb on the news the other day where a spokesman from the troopers acknowledged crimes are noticeably rising. The North Hero burglary suspect who the homeowner cranked two rounds at was picked up today in Burglinton. What a guy, he has over three dozen prior convictions and not too long ago WCAX interviewed him regarding prison life during which time he reassured the public he is now a taxpayer and gone straight. LOL, a taxpayer! Anyway, this afternoon while doing some outside work a trooper pulled up my driveway to alert me that there are three burglary suspects casing the area. He was able to provide vehicle descriptions. Just a reminder for all to be aware of your surroundings and if something or someone doesn't appear quite right or out of place, take notes of your observations and call it in. Tips like this really help the cops in locating suspects. Shooting the breeze with the trooper he confirmed what already is evident, even when these guys are caught not much happens and the revolving door just continues to spin. Hope everybody has a safe Thanksgiving.

[JM1822]

Originally Posted by flu189

There was a short blurb on the news the other day where a spokesman from the troopers acknowledged crimes are noticeably rising. The North Hero burglary suspect who the homeowner cranked two rounds at was picked up today in Burglinton. What a guy, he has over three dozen prior convictions and not too long ago WCAX interviewed him regarding prison life during which time he reassured the public he is now a taxpayer and gone straight. LOL, a taxpayer! Anyway, this afternoon while doing some outside work a trooper pulled up my driveway to alert me that there are three burglary suspects casing the area. He was able to provide vehicle descriptions. Just a reminder for all to be aware of your surroundings and if something or someone doesn't appear quite right or out of place, take notes of your observations and call it in. Tips like this really help the cops in locating suspects. Shooting the breeze with the trooper he confirmed what already is evident, even when these guys are caught not much happens and the revolving door just continues to spin. Hope everybody has a safe Thanksgiving.

This is one of the things that makes Vermont an interesting place. I am a law enforcement officer in Florida. In all honesty, if this incident happend in Florida, it MIGHT have been a one paragraph story on the left margin of the 9th page of the local paper. When something like this happens in Vermont, it makes headline news and is talked about for weeks all over the state. In other states, stuff like this happens all the time (minus the shots fired). In all honesty, the average person in my community probably feels very safe because they are oblivious to the amount of crime that actually occurs. I would guess that sentencing in Florida and many other states is on par with Vermont. The only difference is that the results of each case are talked about.

I grew up in a rural part of Northern New York. I know how crime effects small, close knit communities. I currently work in a three county district in Florida. My DISTRICT actually had more traffic fatalities this year than the ENTIRE state of Vermont. Again, traffic fatalities barely make the news and they never cover the case after the engines have cooled off. In your state, the reporters probably cover each one from when the crash happend to the conclusion of the case.

Additionaly, Vermont has quite a few "rules" that make life a little more difficult for the police. The only way to fix problems like this is by contacting Legislators and voting in "tough" judges.

[flu189]

Reaction to and the reporting of crime is definately relative to the population of the community. I am a retired LEO and in the city I worked in, the actual crime rate was very high and the media barely covered it. Attempts to publicize the volume of calls for service and volume of offenses was quashed to keep from earning the city a brand. Here in the majority of the state crime has been historically very low so when a town sees a spike in burglaries from lets say one a month to three, then that makes news. What also makes news here is the fact that a great many folks are armed and not hesitant to use force to protect themselves and their property. The same issue happened last year when we had a rash of gas station/store robberies as some owner/operators publically made it very clear to would be thugs what they risk by hitting them. The very threat of potentially dealing with victims who will fight back does more to thwart certain offenses than the fear of being identified and prosecuted by our justice system. Neighbors actively looking out for other neighbors also provides a good deterence.