[arel]

I was just reading the Police Log in the Brattleboro Reformer and was struck by the lenient treatment that violent criminals receive. Two years for attempted murder? Perpetrators of violent domestic assaults let out of jail on the condition that they do not contact or abuse their victims?

I am simply shocked. Where are these judges coming from?

When I move up to Vermont in a couple of weeks, I don't know how safe I'll feel, knowing that someone can choke me, destroy my property and threaten my pets, and then, even though he is facing trial and, hopefully, significant jail time, be set free on a promise that he stay away from me. Or that if he tries to kill me he can plea-deal and get all of two years and a day.

I'm no right winger, but I think Vermont needs to get tougher on violent offenders. No matter how much understanding is in order, there is still a need for accountability.

[Lilybeans]

Get a gun. That will keep problems at bay.

[mustmove]

Scary thing is the cases that get sent to diversion(lots) don't even make the police report. As for the light sentences I don't know but always assumed it was the lefty political notion of not holding folks responsible for their behavior. Oh well if you ever want to become an axe murderer you've found the right place...

[arel]

Are you bing flip, Lilybeans, or are you serious?

I know Vermont has lenient gun laws. But I still fear carrying a gun. There are so many complexities and so many things that can go tragically wrong, even if you invest in intense safety training. The former police chief in Brattleboro wrote at lentgh about this on iBrattleboro.com.

I could be wrong, but I don't think people in Brattleboro tend to be armed. In more rural areas upstate, maybe.

Anyway, this avoids the questions posed in the original post. Why is Vermont so lenient with dangerous criminals? Where are the judges coming from?

[flu189]

Why are we so lenient? Because our courts and legislature subscribe to the methodology of leniency based on their view of sociology and psychology. Now I am not advocating destroying someones life for a petty misdemeanor offense, but we have quite the impressive track record here of taking no serious action for serious felons and chronic recidivists. I guess since a good part of the public has never been victimized and feels little to no threat in the future they are willing to not be too concerned over how our system deals with offenders. I personally know several Vt LEOs and two probation/parole officers and the stories on what happens within the justice system here is absolutely amazing. Having a background in the field I have gotten some rather detailed, candid, and descriptive versions. As a matter of fact today I met one of my police contacts just to find out he had recently resigned from his agency and will seek other employment based on his academic background. Disgusted, political, and burnt out are some of the terms I have frequently heard used here and usually from my experience burn out in law enforcement in the vast majority of cases involves officers in major urban areas with high stress and volume call loads.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by arel

Are you bing flip, Lilybeans, or are you serious?

I know Vermont has lenient gun laws. But I still fear carrying a gun. There are so many complexities and so many things that can go tragically wrong, even if you invest in intense safety training. The former police chief in Brattleboro wrote at lentgh about this on iBrattleboro.com.

I could be wrong, but I don't think people in Brattleboro tend to be armed. In more rural areas upstate, maybe.

Anyway, this avoids the questions posed in the original post. Why is Vermont so lenient with dangerous criminals? Where are the judges coming from?

Brattleboro is notorious amongst gun rights supporters in VT as being one of the very anti-gun cities (or town, rather, officially) within VT. They tried enforcing a ban on carrying firearms in their city at one point. Of course, it was thrown out by the courts. Rutland City is the same way. It took a lawsuit being filed around 1996 (IIRC) to throw out (actually the city caved in and settled to avoid a bigger loss, they were going to lose no matter how much money they dumped into defending it) Rutland's similar ordinance, despite the fact that the VT Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional in 1903! I've been harassed by the Rutland City police for carrying a gun recently (June). They'll be sued (mark my words) if they do so again. There's (still) an ordinance in Rutland City against carrying firearms in parks. That's illegal for a city to enforce, because of state law, so if they try, that's a lawsuit right there too. Not to look sue-happy but I take my rights seriously and some police departments in this state don't seem to give two cents about people's rights. I may be overgeneralizing a bit, but I think this holds true for the police in Rutland and Brattleboro (also Burlington and Montpelier) at least: they'd prefer people be dependent on them rather than independent, it gives them justification for budget increases and protects their jobs. Kind of a nanny attitude. If people defended themselves and shot violent criminals, the police would have more trouble asking for pay raises, fancy new equipment, etc. Also a lot of people from anti-gun states who've moved in and kept their attitudes, who've been hired as police. So, FWIW, take whatever the chief said with a grain of salt.

In any case, invest in some training and carefully study the laws to keep yourself legal. Find someone to help you get comfortable with a gun. Find a gun you're comfortable with. The best gun in the world is useless if because it's uncomfortable to use or carry it's left sitting in a safe. Most of the crimes have been between druggies and such, but as those carjacking victims discovered not too long ago when those 4 men were fleeing after that shooting, it can spill over. That couple could easily have been killed by those thugs, being unarmed.

Anyways, the judges and their light sentencing: partly because of their liberal views, partly because of the overcrowding and budget issues with the prisons.

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by arel

Are you bing flip, Lilybeans, or are you serious?

Absolutely serious. You have to be responsible for your own safety. You are moving to a free state now.

New York spends a great deal of time and money convincing it's citizens that guns are bad and that protecting yourself is bad. I know it will take some time, but be open to the idea that guns are not inherently dangerous and that they can serve as a valid means of protecting yourself.

[flu189]

When traveling to and from work or even going to the store I am usually armed. Mind you, it's concealed and not apparent what so ever, yet can be rapidly deployed should the need arise. Realistically I doubt I would ever encounter a situation where the need to use force for defense would be necessary, but I know enough to know that we have enough thugs that there is a chance our paths may cross and I will not become a victim. Emotionally and psychologically I also am fully prepared to use deadly force as a last resort should it become necessary. If you are not comfortable with the thought of carrying and potentially using deadly force, then that is totally understandable. If you feel you have no problem then by all means get proficient with the use of your weapon and fully understand the law and implications of using such force. I personally have experience with weapons from both the civilian and military side for several decades, yet I am keenly aware that especially in a state like Vermont should you use force the courts and attorneys can make your life into an emotional and fiscal nightmare as they always have the luxury of spending significant after the fact time in their analysis and interpretation.

[tkln]

I have to say, having been born and raised in NYC, that I spent a good portion of my younger (high school/college) years being very pro-gun control. Not necessarily for any other reason than fear and seeing how much crime there was in this city due to illegal guns...with age, and also by being engaged to a former Marine, I now cannot wait to move to VT so that I can have the ability to carry if I so choose. My fiancé taught me how to shoot and I do enjoy it - a few years ago I was considering applying for a permit here in NYC - since I'm a single female, there was a greater possibility that I would be approved.

I'm not sure if I ever will carry when we do move, but I certainly wouldn't be against it. Everyone I've ever spoken to in VT says that's one of the major reasons there isn't a lot of crime up there - you're a lot less vulnerable if a criminal knows he can die while robbing you.

One thing is for sure - our house will have an arsenal - rifles are legal on LI, and my fiancé has plenty, he's just going to add a very substantial handgun collection when we move.

[Lilybeans]

I carry every single day.