[wanashunkaha]

Hi Folks,
I'll give you the condensed version of the story to keep from putting you all to sleep! ... After spending the first half of my life hating my boom box, siren infested, too loud parties, late night yelling and screaming life, (it was all others doing that, not me! ) I'm ready to move to Vermont. I've felt misplaced my entire life, but responsibilities kept me from relocating. I'm now ready for a move to a rural area. I'm a quiet, introverted, but friendly, give you the shirt off my back kind of guy once I know someone. I have a very limited budget and therefore I'm shopping the more remote areas because the property seems to be cheaper. I have a couple questions regarding the process as I would like to proceed...I would like to buy a minimum of 5 acres, with or without a small cabin. My final intentions are to have a few farm animals, gardens and to build my own home, paying as I go. I've seen some properties that are "seasonal". Does that refer to access only, or are you allowed to inhabit them only a percentage of the year by law? I realize getting in and out for supplies would be a winter challenge, but I'm willing to deal with that issue. Can I live in a seasonal cabin while planning/building my home? I realize a soil perc test done after a purchase is risky, but can't I just go with a composting toilet if it fails? Also, is there any reason I would be denied a building permit, if my plans meet the building codes? It seems that property that has been perc'd and permitted is out of my price range considering my 5 acre minimum. SOOO many questions! All help is appreciated. Thanks.

[vter]

Re: Seasonal - most likely means not insulated and no heat. So...not sure you'd want to try to live somewhere like that in the dead of winter. Also access could be an issue...lots of seasonal cabins are on "roughed in" roads that would not be easy to maintain in the winter.
From what I understand, you won't be able to get a building permit to build a home if you don't have a septic permit. Vermont, again from what I understand, has strict septic laws. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject can chime in.
What areas of Vermont are you looking at? The "cheapest" area would be the Northeast Kingdom (Caledonia, Essex, & Orleans Counties)- with Essex County probably being the cheapest.

[arctichomesteader]

Building anything will be expensive in VT, and already built cabins will have those expenses built into the price. VT is a heavily regulated state as far as building and land use goes. And taxes to go with those rules...

Are you set on VT? THere are cheaper options that may suit you...some parts of Northern Maine are reasonably affordable. Some real rural/remote parts of Alaska (where I'm moving to) would be perfect for what you want. The total amount I'm paying each year (if paying minimum payments) on my land in Alaska is less than the taxes would be on a similar property in VT...and there are no taxes on it (but this isn't true of everywhere in AK, some of AK is much more expensive than VT).

About seasonal properties: in some cases it's only a matter of not being well insulated or setup for winters. In others, it would be illegal to live there fulltime. Some hunting camps, for example, have outhouses and such not legal/permitted for year-round use. You'd technically have to get the permit and put in a conforming septic system. You could get away with not doing so in parts of VT but understand the risks if you have a nosey neighbor or local official. In a nearby town, they're trying to fine someone because they used an RV as a guest house, simply because the selectboard members are, well, snobs who don't like that sort of thing. Talk about control freaks...

Northern VT is the best part of VT for what you want but you still won't escape the regulations, taxes, and high prices of land (though there is relatively affordable land in Northern VT if you look, but no jobs to pay for it either, so you need a wad of cash in hand if you want to live there, or risk losing it if you can't make the payments and taxes due to lack of income). And be aware of wetlands, I could have bought 25 acres for about 10,000 (sounds cheap don't it?) up near the Canadian border a couple years ago, but it was all classified as wetlands (despite being fairly dry with a good spot for building), so to build there was almost impossible. So be careful when you see "cheap" land in VT! You can pay the taxes on it but do almost nothing with it!

Good luck, your dream is about the same as mine, so I hope you find something you like. I'm leaving VT to reach my goal but you may find VT perfectly suited for you.

[mustmove]

I'll get blasted for this, but VT is no longer the Five Acres and Independence state. Lot's of land use stuff that has made what you have in mind expensive. Plus COL is expensive. There are some exceptions to the rules for farming, but I wouldn't count on it. Ironic as much of the current population came here to do what you are thinking about, then when the farming didn't pan out got into state gov't and...

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by mustmove

I'll get blasted for this, but VT is no longer the Five Acres and Independence state. Lot's of land use stuff that has made what you have in mind expensive. Plus COL is expensive. There are some exceptions to the rules for farming, but I wouldn't count on it. Ironic as much of the current population came here to do what you are thinking about, then when the farming didn't pan out got into state gov't and...

That's what gets me! All these people who once wanted this sort of thing invaded (following the Nearings for example), then brought in all this control freak stuff and high taxes making it so difficult and expensive to do so! I wish they'd left when they gave up on the idea instead of ruining things for those who didn't...we've already got New York to the West and MA to the South where big brother lovers can live in happiness.

[wanashunkaha]

Originally Posted by vter

Re: Seasonal - most likely means not insulated and no heat. So...not sure you'd want to try to live somewhere like that in the dead of winter. Also access could be an issue...lots of seasonal cabins are on "roughed in" roads that would not be easy to maintain in the winter.
From what I understand, you won't be able to get a building permit to build a home if you don't have a septic permit. Vermont, again from what I understand, has strict septic laws. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject can chime in.
What areas of Vermont are you looking at? The "cheapest" area would be the Northeast Kingdom (Caledonia, Essex, & Orleans Counties)- with Essex County probably being the cheapest.

I can deal with any building modifications that need to be made, i.e., insulate, install wood/pellet stove as I'm in the home improvement trade. I can live with freezing my a** off until I make it more comfortable. As crazy as it may sound to some, I'm not deterred by roughed in roads or high snowfalls. There's always monster 4wd vehicles, X country skis, snow shoes, snowmobiles, etc. Given a choice, Orleans county would be preferred, however in general, the further north, the better. Essex county seems to be more mountainous and therefore not as desirable, but I wouldn't rule it out.

[mustmove]

Start talking to RE agents. As mentioned you really need a septic permit or the easy possibility of a septic permit, avoid wetlands and mapped vernal pools- the new everywhere wetland building stopper. Where are you coming from? There is always construction/handyman work in VT, but you might be disappointed with the pay.

[GrnMtnFire]

I'd check with the local town clerk, when it comes to what is a "legal" inhabitance. I know of a few people that still use outhouses (by choice), and carry in the water from their well. It is not illegal to live year round in what some here would/are calling a hunting camp.

[arctichomesteader]

What the law says:

"
Notwithstanding any other requirements of this chapter, the following projects and actions are exempt:
(1)(A) All buildings or structures, campgrounds, and their associated potable water supplies and waste water systems that were substantially completed before January 1, 2007 and all improved and unimproved lots that were in existence before January 1, 2007. This exemption shall remain in effect provided:
(i) No action for which a permit is required under this chapter or the rules adopted under this chapter is taken or caused to be taken on or after January 1, 2007, unless such action is exempt under one of the other permitting exemptions listed in this section or in the rules adopted under this chapter; and
(ii) If a permit has been issued under this chapter or the rules adopted under this chapter before January 1, 2007 that contained conditions that required actions to be taken on or after January 1, 2007, including, but not limited to, conditions concerning operation and maintenance and transfer of ownership, the permittee continues to comply with those permit conditions.
(B) If a permit or permit amendment is required because the potable water supply or wastewater system has failed, the secretary may issue a permit that allows for a variance in accordance with the standards contained in section 1973 of this chapter, the rules adopted under this chapter, and the rules adopted under chapter 56 of this title.
(C) An owner of a single family residence that qualified on January 1, 2007 for the exemption set forth in subdivision (1)(A) of this section shall not be subject to administrative or civil penalties under chapters 201 and 211 of this title for a violation of this chapter or rules adopted under this chapter when the owner believes the supply or system meets the definition of a failed supply or failed system provided that the owner:
(i) Conducts or contracts for an inspection of the supply or system;
(ii) Notifies the secretary of natural resources of the results of the inspection; and
(iii) Has not taken or caused to be taken any other action after January 1, 2007 for which a permit would be required under this chapter or the rules adopted under this chapter.
(2) Primitive camps with no interior plumbing consisting of more than a sink with water, that are used no more than three consecutive weeks per year and no more than a total of 60 days per year, shall be exempt. This exemption does not apply to seasonal camps. (Added 2001, No. 133 (Adj. Sess.), § 1, eff. June 13, 2002; amended 2007, No. 32, § 4, eff. May 18, 2007.)"

The Vermont Statutes Online

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by wanashunkaha

Hi Folks,
I'll give you the condensed version of the story to keep from putting you all to sleep! ... After spending the first half of my life hating my boom box, siren infested, too loud parties, late night yelling and screaming life, (it was all others doing that, not me! ) I'm ready to move to Vermont. I've felt misplaced my entire life, but responsibilities kept me from relocating. I'm now ready for a move to a rural area. I'm a quiet, introverted, but friendly, give you the shirt off my back kind of guy once I know someone. I have a very limited budget and therefore I'm shopping the more remote areas because the property seems to be cheaper. I have a couple questions regarding the process as I would like to proceed...I would like to buy a minimum of 5 acres, with or without a small cabin. My final intentions are to have a few farm animals, gardens and to build my own home, paying as I go. I've seen some properties that are "seasonal". Does that refer to access only, or are you allowed to inhabit them only a percentage of the year by law? I realize getting in and out for supplies would be a winter challenge, but I'm willing to deal with that issue. Can I live in a seasonal cabin while planning/building my home? I realize a soil perc test done after a purchase is risky, but can't I just go with a composting toilet if it fails? Also, is there any reason I would be denied a building permit, if my plans meet the building codes? It seems that property that has been perc'd and permitted is out of my price range considering my 5 acre minimum. SOOO many questions! All help is appreciated. Thanks.

Where do you live? Why specifically Vermont?