[arel]

Well, I'm finally here in Vermont and there may be a snowstorm tonight or tomorrow. I'm supposed to pick up my cat in South Deerfield tomorrow - he is probably going to be released from the hospital there - but if the roads are bad, I'll have to postpone the trip. My tires are simply no good on slick roads and I haven't gotten new ones yet.

Actually, I want to buy a new car that will be appropriate for the upcoming Vermont winter. I am most seriously interested in a Subaru, because of the all-wheel-drive. I want a model with stability control; not all of the Subaru models come with it.

I'm going nuts trying to research the available features and the bells and whistles. Some of them I simply don't understand. My technical knowledge about cars is not sophisticated enough. So I don't really know what I need and what I don't. I don't know if I really need turbo for acceleration. I don't know if I need that "intelligent driving" feature that manipulates the feel of the car from sporty to very sporty. I don't really want a manual transmission, even though I know it gives more control of the car. I used to like driving a manual transmission, but now I like the convenience of an automatic.

Other cars I have been looking at are the Honda Civic and the Toyota Prius. The Prius gives great fuel economy, of course, and the blogs are full of people who love the car, but a review I read, I think on the Edmunds website, said that the handling is not as good as a lot of other cars. The Honda is great for styling, but I don't know if it gives as good traction as a Subaru. I still have to research that.

My priorities are traction, braking, handling and reliability. I enjoy driving and like a car that is fun to drive. I want confidence and peace of mind when there is snow, or even a lot of rain, and the roads are slick. I absolutely hate skidding and hydroplaning, especially here in Vermont, where one can fly off a road and then down a steep embankment, or even into a lake or river. Remember, I'm used to living where it is usually flat!!!!

The Subaru's downside that fuel economy is inferior to that of a Honda or Prius. I guess the AWD uses up extra fuel. I'm waiting for Subaru to come out with a hybrid vehicle, but I don't know when that will happen.

On this forum, at least one poster has written that having AWD or 4WD gives him the confidence to drive under any conditions here. Another poster has written that her FWD Honda is perfectly adequate for Vermont winters.

Whatever, I'm driving a 10 year old Nissan Sentra and I would like to upgrade to either a Subaru Legacy or Impreza, a Toyota Prius or a Honda Civic.

I'm going to reread the posts on this forum about tires and cars. But meanwhile, I need all the help I can get in choosing a car. The Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book websites don't explain enough, and the Subaru site is, of course, sales-oriented.

BTW, I got my Vermont license and plates yesterday.

[GypsySoul22]

Congrats on the Vermont 'hardware.' Soon we have to pay up for ours as the year is almost out.

I suppose, as you have read over and over, the best thing is to get good snowtires. Cross your fingers we DON'T have a winter like last year (seriously going to sob if we do--).

There are ALL sorts of cars here. I saw one guy where I live drive a hearse (seriously). Also a old junky station wagon.

PS We had a Honda Civic in NY and it was TERRIBLE in the ice and snow...!

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by GypsySoul22

PS We had a Honda Civic in NY and it was TERRIBLE in the ice and snow...!

What year? I heard that before the redesign in 2006 Civics were lighter and had a narrower wheel base. I have a 2006 Civic and it handles better in ice and snow than any other regular car (e.g., non-4WD, non-ATV) I've driven, including Saabs & Jettae.

[arel]

I used to have a little Subaru hatchback, with on-damand 4WD, and I loved it. I felt so much confidence and peace of mind in the snow. I don't know for sure if my confidence was illusory, but the car actually felt more stable and in control.

I'm normally a confident driver, but I worry about hydroplaning. I used to hydroplane frequently in my first car, a RWD Datsun B210. I didn't know what it was when it happened. I had no control over the car and I only avoided a serious accident by the grace of God. Once I started driving FWD cars, I only very rarely hydroplaned. Very rarely. And the very few times it happened I regained control quickly. But I still hate it and I have never developed confidence in dealing with it.

[GypsySoul22]

Not sure, but it was older than an '06. Also, we did not have snow tires. No one had them in NY.

[vter]

Honestly, unless you live out in the sticks on backroads or have a "scary" driveway, a front wheel drive with a set of good snow tires is perfectly acceptable for winter driving. My last car was an Accord..I ran snows on them. My other half actually preferred to drive the Accord in the snow vs. his 4x4 pick up. I now own a Honda CRV (still put snows on it)-I wanted the AWD mainly because of my driveway (very steep with a turn). Unless you really need a new car, I'd get yourself a set of good snow tires and give this winter a go! Many, many people in Vermont do not drive AWD or 4x4 vehicles.
If you decide to go AWD, I can highly recommend the CRV. It's great in the snow.

[mustmove]

Tires are the most important, being in the (vt) city you shouldn't need AWD. Get some nice studded tires you'll be fine. Something to consider is a lightly used Mercedes 4 matic. They depreciate quick 4-5 years old and they cost the same as similar vintage suburus. Excellent AWD and stability control. Mileage is better than suburus. Some/all of the Mercedes require premium fuel which is a downside I think the turbo suburus require premium as well.

[flu189]

I'll put in a plug in for the Subaru Forester. Bought my first one in '03 in Ak and the second one here in Vt upon moving here in '05. Prior to that I owned two older Subaru Loyale wagons which were also good. They (Forester) are rated very high for both durability, handling, and safety. Granted, AWD, may not be a 365 day necessity, but it's not like you even notice it compared to other FWD cars or ones with on demand 4WD options. Technically they are classified as a small SUV, but my impression is that they ride and handle like a regular passenger car, but you can fit bulkier items in them especially with the back seat folded down. A feature I like is that they have a bit higher ground clearance, handy on backroads and during excessive snow. The cost of the car is also not steep and insuring them is also not expensive. The AWD feature is beneficial in all seasons, not just winter, as power is equally distributed as needed and you don't feel a noticable engaging between front and rear differentials. This is very good on dirt roads, wet roads, wet leaves on a road on a curve, etc. As far as tires go, I just run a good high mileage set of all season Michellins. Tires really do make a difference in the way a vehicle handles the road. Hydroplaning can occur with even the best set of tires as it is more a factor of excessive speed when the rubber no longer has a contact patch with the road, but actually rides on a film of water. This explains the ditch divers off of I89 during summer rain storms. Of course, there are many other suitable vehicles. My son is very happy with his Honda CRV which has racked up quite a high mileage tally without major problems. Ultimately, decide which features you think you will want and do some research. Many features are expensive and not really needed, so don't fall the a salesman's spiel. Test driving different cars, or even renting them for a period if possible is a great way to see if they meet your needs and expectations. As much as I like my Forester, I am glad to see fuel prices down because I really like driving my F150 truck just as much, but actually, the Subaru handles better on snowy roads.

[arel]

flu189, you're not the first one to recommend the Forester. If I wanted an SUV, that's the one I'd get. But there are two reasons why I probably would not get one. First, I like a lower center of gravity than you get with an SUV. More stability. Second, I would prefer a sedan. A loaded sedan looks the same as an empty sedan. An SUV, like a station wagon, is great for carrying bulky things, but everyone can see what you have in the car, and what you have is more likely to get stolen.

So I think I will go with a Subaru Legacy or, if I like a smaller car, a Subaru Impreza. Hondas and Toyotas are famously reliable, but they don't have the traction of a Subaru. And American cars often have a squishy feel to the steering. And, unless things have changed, they are not as reliable as Japanese cars.

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by vter

Honestly, unless you live out in the sticks on backroads or have a "scary" driveway, a front wheel drive with a set of good snow tires is perfectly acceptable for winter driving. My last car was an Accord..I ran snows on them. My other half actually preferred to drive the Accord in the snow vs. his 4x4 pick up. I now own a Honda CRV (still put snows on it)-I wanted the AWD mainly because of my driveway (very steep with a turn). Unless you really need a new car, I'd get yourself a set of good snow tires and give this winter a go! Many, many people in Vermont do not drive AWD or 4x4 vehicles.
If you decide to go AWD, I can highly recommend the CRV. It's great in the snow.

Agree, agree.

AWD has added weight and complexity. Unless you're off roading or going into some remote camp areas, a FWD will be fine.

The mental security that comes with an AWD may be worth the price, but on the thinking brain's side I go with FWD.

I bought snows for the first time in my life the winter of 05-06. That's because we were new to the area and here they don't plow a lot of roads so they end up with snow that packs into glare ice. Aggressive driving will only get you into trouble there, so snows it was.
REVO1 from Bridgestone were an amazing difference from my all seasons. They grabbed on ice, in deep snow, pretty sticky tires.
Later I replaced them with some all season tires, Dunlop SP60s. Those were better than the dedicated snows. We had huge snows last winter, and those Dunlops didn't even slow down. Great tires.

Actually, my driving hero from the late 50s early 60s (no Soobies, only FWD were Saab 2-strokes...) was a guy who drove a Pontiac Bonneville with snows and (probably) positraction. He was one high performance driver, and the key to getting through anything not bigger than his car was momentum. He would go through four+ foot snowplow walls just from getting up some momentum going down the driveway.
He also had a remote cabin, and he took the Bonneville there, too.


Elsewhere I listed the AWD cars and wagons/SUVs I'm aware of that also feature Onstar. These are GM or related products, and for those who love Onstar, there's no substitute.
I'll try to dig up the list and bring it over here.

But IMO it's the tires that do the trick. And of course the nut behind the wheel.