[Adream]

...and hide on top of a mountain somewhere.

Vermont's colleges received record numbers of applications after 9/11. We've met folks who moved to VT, from California, Hawaii, Miami FL, and of course NY (post 9/11) to find peace in life. Some have found it there, some haven't. (That's not always a commentary on Vermont, some people don't realize they have to find peace within themselves. That's another topic for another day.)

I wonder if the current economic/world/cultural craziness will have a similar effect as 9/11; drawing people to Vermont?

Your thoughts?

[Sherylcatmom]

I didn't pick Vermont for those reasons. I wasn't thinking like that in my early 30s. But the longer I live in Vermont, and the more of the rest of the world I see, the gladder I am that home is the Green Mountain State. We considered relocating at one point just to explore living somewhere else, but decided that this is home and we're grateful to be here.

[arctichomesteader]

I could see it happening. I also fear Alaska will be inundated with people moving there in the summer. I think any real rural state will be facing this actually. The economic crisis, and other things, is driving home the fact for some people that the fast-paced city life has some flaws. I've seen articles in recent months about the growing popularity of things ranging from raising chickens to gardening and I think hunting (legal and illegal) is getting more interest also. Similar to what happened during the Great Depression in some ways. And people will start realizing if they stick with these things that the big city or even the suburbs isn't the place to be doing it (regulations, close neighbors, lack of space...).

[JM1822]

Economics is one thing that is making me consider a move to your state. Of course, there are other reasons as well.

Vermont will be a little more expensive than where I am right now, but the State of Florida is rapidly becoming a very expensive state to live in. Florida's budget has been cut by about 8 billion dollars in the last two years, and we are already expecting more gigantic budget cuts for the next couple years. Florida is a decent state to move to if you are retired from a good job up north, but it is very difficult to earn a living if you have to work down here.

Florida has the smallest state government employee to citizen ratio in the entire country, but a vast majority of those government workers are eligible for food stamps. Many state employees are paid about $20,000 a year. State employees have not had a raise in over three years, and we have already been told not to expect anything for at least two more. Can you imagine trying to raise a family on $20,000, especially after working for the State for 10 years?

I'm a little better off than many state employees, but it's still becoming difficult to live down here on what I make. I pay $400 a month to send my child to a private school because the public education system is horrible down here (no offense to any Florida teachers that might frequent this board)!

If I do move to Vermont, I will probably take a pay cut in the beginning, but after a couple years, I should be better off than I am right now. Plus, my family and I enjoy the country lifestyle in the northeast. Florida is an "outdoorsey" state, but only for about 4 months out of the year. I feel more housebound in Florida during August than I ever did in Northern New York in the winter time.

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by JM1822

Florida is an "outdoorsey" state, but only for about 4 months out of the year. I feel more housebound in Florida during August than I ever did in Northern New York in the winter time.

As a SFla native and 20-year New Englander, I agree with you completely. The FL outdoor season was so short for me. Whereas I only rarely feel stuck inside in Vermont, and it's more frequently due to heat/humidity than cold. My cost of living is also lower in VT than it was in FL, and remains lower than COL for my friends in FL, NY, & NJ.

[arel]

I recently moved to Vermont from Brooklyn, NY. Although I do miss some people and relationships - which I can maintain by phone and email - I'm grateful to be here and not there.

I do not miss the congestion, the crowds, the traffic jams, the over-stimulation, the rudeness, and the need to constantly question other people's honesty, integrity and intentions. I do not miss the in-your-face attitudes and speech. I do not miss the constant wariness about crime, or the concerns that large crowds or shopping malls could be targets of terrorists. I do not miss the dirt. I do not miss the endless asphalt and concrete. I do not miss the dreariness of much of Brooklyn.

I don't even miss too much of the racial and ethnic diversity of New York City. Brattleboro has SIT, with people from all over the world. A friend of mine rents room to SIT students and I get to meet them. I've met people from China, Indonesia, Tibet, Uganda and other places.

What do I miss? Apart from certain people and relationships, I miss flat, straight, well-lit streets. To some extent, I miss the ocean. But I can visit friends in southern Rhode Island whenever I want, and the beaches in Rhode Island are much nicer than those in New York City. I miss knowing I can go whenever I want to the great museums in New York. But I get a lot of pleasure with the arts culture here.

The thing is, there is virtually nothing I miss about New York City. Perhaps that will change. But Brattleboro has almost everything I loved about New York City with almost nothing I hated. Sometimes I feel the same ambience I have felt in Greenwich Village, or, to a slightly lesser extent, the Upper West Side. These are my two favorite neighborhoods in Manhattan. Sometimes I feel like I am in a rural version of Greenwich Village. And I love the sense of community we have in Brattleboro (except when I have to pay taxes I could have avoided if I had made the purchase in New Hampshire ).

But I have had my moments of homesickness, both for the familiarity of New York City and for New York City itself.

The truth is that Vermont is not perfect - the cost of living is high, salaries are low, taxes are high and good jobs are hard to find. But Vermont, at least to me so far, feels like a sane and human-scaled place. I feel nourished by the visual beauty and by the local culture of arts, social and environmental consciousness and civic engagement.

But I do have concerns that some of the craziness outside will invade and, at least to some extent, undermine our quality of life here. Fortunately, though, we have a strong community spirit that will enable people to pull together.

[mustmove]

VT is certainly isolated from the rat race. Of course the rat race has two sides one being economic prosperity. I for one feel much more energized being someplace where stuff is happening, when I see a gravel pit or factory I smile with the knowledge that wealth is being created. Give me the rat race with an occasional VT vacation, or the Whites, or the Adirondacks. If you want to get away from that productive human activity in all of it's ugliness come on up there is plenty of room. And there is no way VT is going to fill up and become citified.

[tkln]

Personally, I think in these lean times, LESS people are going to move up to VT. 9/11 was a different animal - there was a lot of emotions, people were driven by fear and wanting to get back to the way it 'used' to be, etc....now, people are losing jobs, there's uncertainty and everything is expensive. People are getting back to the way things used to be, but now they're doing it because they can't afford to do anything else.

I would imagine people are staying where they are, or moving to more congested areas where there are more job opportunities.

I have to say, though for the time being my job is safe, I've definitely put some thought to what would happen if I was living in VT and I got laid off.

[arel]

If you get laid off in Vermomt, or if you hated your job and wanted to leave, you don't have the choices you would have in NYC or another big city.

That's something I fretted about before I moved. I guess I still fret about it. It's a real issue.

I have noticed that there are lots of small businesses here and that there is active nurturing of small business and entrepreneurship. I don't yet know enough about the local culture to know exactly why, but I suspect there are a number of factors involved. I suspect a lot of people like their independence and the freedom to create their own working conditions. Others may want to do work that they love and feel called to do, and can only do that in a small business. Others may feel that the economy here works better for them in a small business. They can make more money as an entrepreneur than as an employee. Still others may be following a family tradition.

In New York, you can have a small business and for the same reasons. But I suspect it is a whole different experience in a big city from the experience in rural or small-town Vermont.

[JM1822]

I don't know if Vermont would ever be a location for a mass immigration. I'm no expert, but I would think that the population of Vermont stays pretty constant.

I think states like Tennessee, the Carolinas, Texas and Virginia are more apt to see an influx of new residents. Last year, for the first time, U-Haul reported more rental trucks LEAVING Florida than entering Florida. I know several of my co-workers that have purchased land in Tennessee and Virginia. I think the cost of living is much lower and the weather conditions are much more pleasant all year long. I think people that can't afford to live up north for 6 months and down south 6 months would be more likely to purchase a home in those states.

Just my 2 cents (.153 cents after taxes)