[NJ Bear]

Quote:Originally Posted by biscuitdad I'm with you. I've had enough of the high property taxes, long winters and ridiculous roads. Me too. I'm also sick of the lack of congestion, natural beauty, and cooler summers. Let's go!Yeah, why don't you move to NJ.... then you'll have HIGHER proprty taxes; winters that can be cold or warm, snowy or rainy or icy, or any combination of the three; humid summers; ridiculous roads; congestion; pollution; remnants of natural beauty here and there; more and higher paying jobs (which you'd need because everything costs more $$).Seriously, while life in VT may not fit all of the postcard images, it's laughable to say it's "better" elsewhere just because those "other" places have more, higher-paying jobs or shorter winters; and any place with more or higher paying jobs will pretty universally have high taxes, which may (NY) or may not (NJ) correlate to the condition of said roads.Pick your poison, nowhere is perfect but I'd happily take lower pay and longer winters for less congestion, shorter/less stressful commutes, less heat/humidity, lower expenses, and a more natural environment...

[flu189]

Can honestly say that barring a very specific and excellent job offer I have not met anyone that picked NJ as a destination to head to while trying to escape something. The virtues of Vermont are all true and the mindset of giving up pay to be able to partake in the lifestyle amenities is also very true. Just try to be as certain as possible that you can make it work, otherwise quite a bit of the wunderlust and zest can be crushed.

[GypsySoul22]

What Flu said about underemployment...I echo it...

It's probably why it is so hard to get a job here--everyone and their brother HAS a degree and are all competing for any job that pays more than waiting tables or manning golf courses.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by flu189

The virtues of Vermont are all true and the mindset of giving up pay to be able to partake in the lifestyle amenities is also very true.

Go to any state forum here and it's the same story. The places wasn't what it was thirty years ago...taxes are out of hand...production jobs drying up...
politicians are wrecking the place....newcomers are wrecking the place...

[GypsySoul22]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Go to any state forum here and it's the same story. The places wasn't what it was thirty years ago...taxes are out of hand...production jobs drying up...
politicians are wrecking the place....newcomers are wrecking the place...

Well, not ALL newcomers...

[68vette]

Originally Posted by NJ Bear

Quote:Originally Posted by biscuitdad I'm with you. I've had enough of the high property taxes, long winters and ridiculous roads. Me too. I'm also sick of the lack of congestion, natural beauty, and cooler summers. Let's go!Yeah, why don't you move to NJ.... then you'll have HIGHER proprty taxes; winters that can be cold or warm, snowy or rainy or icy, or any combination of the three; humid summers; ridiculous roads; congestion; pollution; remnants of natural beauty here and there; more and higher paying jobs (which you'd need because everything costs more $$).Seriously, while life in VT may not fit all of the postcard images, it's laughable to say it's "better" elsewhere just because those "other" places have more, higher-paying jobs or shorter winters; and any place with more or higher paying jobs will pretty universally have high taxes, which may (NY) or may not (NJ) correlate to the condition of said roads.Pick your poison, nowhere is perfect but I'd happily take lower pay and longer winters for less congestion, shorter/less stressful commutes, less heat/humidity, lower expenses, and a more natural environment...

I think the issue is that unlike NJ there are not very many high or even good paying jobs. Our taxes are not far behind NJ as well as our home prices. When I first moved to Vermont this was not the case at all. It was very, very affordable. We have had such a huge change in such a short time, people are now getting fed up. I'm not complaining, but the home I bought 14 years ago for 105,000 is now worth close to 500,000 in this bad economy. The property taxes went from less than $1000 to over $5000. Tell me how a native Vermonter that is just getting by can afford this?

[GypsySoul22]

Originally Posted by 68vette

I think the issue is that unlike NJ there are not very many high or even good paying jobs. Our taxes are not far behind NJ as well as our home prices. When I first moved to Vermont this was not the case at all. It was very, very affordable. We have had such a huge change in such a short time, people are now getting fed up. I'm not complaining, but the home I bought 14 years ago for 105,000 is now worth close to 500,000 in this bad economy. The property taxes went from less than $1000 to over $5000. Tell me how a native Vermonter that is just getting by can afford this?

They're not. I used to work for "A housing association' (let's call them that) that practically owns one of our village here. Well, the regular guy is getting squeezed out because if you want to live in XYZ village, 99% of it is owned by the association. That means you pay fees above your taxes (which are pretty high) to live there.

Most of the members are second home owners, wealthy retirees from other places, and a handful of locals who 'joined up' years ago when it was cheaper and I guess they felt their property would go up in value.

Lo and behold, fees are now out of control. Few people who bought in years ago can 'afford it' as they raise dues and so on..I am not sure how much property is selling there now with the recession but local, long timers were always butting heads with the association especially since there are strict codes on 'how you paint your house' and 'how you keep your land.'

It seems to me if this place is like other areas of Vermont (I don't know them all) that Vermont is becoming a retreat for the wealthy and the rest of the people are out of luck trying to keep up as taxes go higher.

[flu189]

The comments on housing costs are right on the mark. This past week I did quite a bit of research trying to figure out what my place might fetch on the market and was shocked at how high comps are going for. Mind you, from a potential sellers point of view this at face value seems like good news and I am seriously starting to weigh the option of perhaps maybe trying to sell before my deployment. However, I suspect this option might not work since I really can't fathom that in this economy there could possibly so many potential buyers come this spring and summer who would be in the position to buy at these prices, surely not the bulk of Vermonters that I at least know. Looking at the figures I assumed that asking prices are just inflated, but from stats up through late '08 sellers appeared to be getting on average 97% of asking price and so many homes were actually selling above appraisal. I just question if this trend can make it into this coming season. I do live within an easy commute to the areas larger schools, so if it takes approving educrat and teacher raises at town meeting then I guess so be it, because short of inbound monied retirees they are the only employed group in numbers that can possibly afford to buy.

[MTK1]

Flu- A friend of mine recently sold their home in Hinesburg. They sold in the summer of 08 and had lived there for 4 years. They got just slightly above for what they had originally purchased the house for 4 years earlier. Hinesburg is a desirable area from what I have heard. It was more or less a break even deal after improvements etc they put into the house. Who purchased the house? It was a wealthy out-of-state couple looking to relocate. However a friend of mine is in real estate in Chittenden Co and says that he thinks in 2009 the real estate market here is going to go sour. Once winter breaks he says that a huge amont of people want out of here. Come spring you are going to see a huge amount of homes on the market.

On to the original topic- The report does indeed say what many of us already know. Todays new is the corporate tax here "down a whopping 33 percent". I really dont think VT is going to survive this econmic turmoil. The amount of job losses here is staggering. The above report backs this up with the number one reason of forclosures being job losses. I am in my late twentys and come spring I cant begin to tell you how many people are moving out of here. Couple that with the oldest U.S. population and this state is going to be facing some monumental challenges.

[flu189]

MTK1 I fear you are right regarding the the way the market will shape up here. There are only so many outsiders who will relocate here for whatever reason and I personally know lots of folks who are working on plans to move out. The the real drop will come in phases, once the state creates a mass layoff, and then when the stimulus funds run out to keep programs XYZ running for another year or two. This is why in my contingency planning I might just see what transpires this spring and summer and if I think I can get a decent price then I will surely try and sell. It's actually humorous to see the state report month after month that revenues fall short of expectations. That's what happens when you have idealists without their feet grounded in reality making policy. If the financial markets do start an uptick then that will give confidence to those with investment income, but as far as those that rely on day to day employment to live the dream, I feel they will be left at the end of the line.